Vaginismus: Painful Sex

Happier Couples

Vaginismus: Painful Sex

39:11

 

What are the causes, symptoms and treatment options for Vaginismus? Jess shares resources and chats with her friend Meredith who shares her story of successfully overcoming Vaginismus.

As mentioned on this episode, check out the work of Dr. Susie Gronski and the Pelvic Mafia!

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Rough Transcript:

This is a computer-generated rough transcript, so please excuse any typos. This podcast is an informational conversation and is not a substitute for medical, health or other professional advice, diagnosis or treatment. Always seek the services of an appropriate professional should you have individual questions or concerns.

Vaginismus: Painful Sex

00:00:05 - 00:05:00

You're listening to the sacs with Dr Jess podcast, sex, and relationship advice you can use tonight. Hey there, just so Riley here. Your friendly neighborhood sexologist. This is the sex with Dr Jess podcast. And today, we will be talking about vaginal Smith's, but first big, thank you to desire resorts in cruises for their ongoing support. They have clothing optional. Couples only paradise is on the Mayan Rivera as well as temptations resorts, which is open to people of all relationship arrangements. So singles couples threesomes and more checkout at desire experience. Vaginal. Dryness involves the sudden and painful contraction of the muscles in the vaginal area upon penetration, and this pain and contraction can be so severe that you cannot handle any degree of penetration. It's just too much. Some people describe a burning sensation that can develop as soon as you touch, and for other people, it develops as penetration is prolonged or deepened, and vaginal Smith's can be linked with, with inflammation with injury with pass trauma with hyper sensitive nerve endings near the vaginal opening and of course, with stress and psychological factors. And if you're new to sex. So if you're trying to engage in penetration for the very first time you can often. Nervous and because of those nerves your pelvic floor muscles, Ken tense up so severely that it feels as though you're hitting a brick wall, so feels like there's something blocking the entrance to the vagina. Now, this doesn't mean that something is actually blocking you from entering. But it feels like it. And when this happens in the beginning, so in your early attempts at having some sort of penetrative, sexual experience, it can be so distressful that the next time you try the same thing, happens because you tense up again or utensil even more. And what happens is you experience more of the same and it becomes a cycle and the distress itself. And the fact that this heightened by he know dealing with shame and secrecy around our bodies and sex, this can be enough to make sex or any sort of penetration. Feel imp-. Possible time and time again. And the more you experience, this distress, the more the muscles respond by contracting. So it becomes this negative feedback loop. And of course, there are many types of sex, you can have without penetration, but many people do desire, vaginal penetration. And it's not only folks who are new to penetration who experienced Baginda Smith's, I've had clients, who experienced secondary, onset, meaning they've had sex in the past they've enjoyed penetration without issue, but secondary onset might occur after trauma after surgery, with battle and bladder issues, and, and even and often with distress in their lives and distress in their relationships. And it's it's fairly common this experience, and it's, it's certainly treatable treatment options are quite varied. And if you have access to a pelvic floor physiotherapist this is where. You'll want to begin a pelvic floor physiotherapist can help you to learn more about your pelvic floor muscles, and they will teach you to both contract and. More importantly in most cases release. They will work with you in a hands on manner to make sure that these muscles are healthy and responsive and you'll have homework they'll use biofeedback to help you to learn to relax these muscles. And they will also look at your muscles in your back in your hips, and in your abdomen to identify tight or painful spots that can actually refer pain to the pelvic floor. So this isn't just about doing eagles. It's a more comprehensive examination and treatment program. And in fact, in many cases, key goals will be contra indicated they will make it worse. So if you can afford to see a pelvic floor therapist, regardless of whether or not you're experiencing, vaginal, dryness.

00:05:00 - 00:10:00

Please do. And if you can't consider following on Twitter, the hash tag, pelvic, mafia, pelvic. Via and they offer resources, research, and some online programs as well. You'll also consider if you're if you're dealing with genetic or any anxiety around sex, cognitive baby cognitive behavioral therapy can help. I think it's easy to say, hey, just relax because ultimately, that's what you need to do. But if you're going to change the way you feel you're going to also have to change the way you think and behave, and cognitive cognitive behavioral therapy can help with this because oftentimes sexual symptoms like vaginal dryness are symptoms of general issues. And if you're anxious about sex, you may also be experiencing distressful levels of anxiety in other arenas of your life. And so when you treat one you'll often look at addressing the others as well. I know some people with aginast miss some of my clients have used my mindful sex. Course this is an online. Course you can check out at happier couples dot com and the. The interactive and more holistic activities in this mindful sex program can help to ease anxiety. I really think a program like mindful sex is good for everyone. Even if you aren't experiencing sexually specific anxiety because it's designed to help you to relax, your body to clear your mind to be more present to get in touch with sensations, to understand what it means to be emotionally present, and it's really about more than sacks its frame to help you have better sex, because it really will help you to relax more and be more present. And so continuing with treatment options in addition to getting to know your pelvic floor muscles learning to relax them doing physical exercises. Addressing anxiety treatment for vaginal Smith's might eventually lead to gradual insertions, starting with smaller objects, usually what we call dilates so. So they come in different sizes, and they look like small dildos as some people begin with an even smaller objects like acute up depending on how severe the pain is. And you will work your way up to increase the size along with the exercise you'll be doing and dia leaders or the insertion of objects are not about stretching your vagina. It's really about learning to relax and to breathe, and to release the muscles. And you might also see that treatment, depending on who you see it could include a look at your diet to make adjustments to improve your gut health, your digestion, and your bow health, because if you're straining when you go to the bathroom, this contracts, the pelvic floor muscles, and of course, you're going to want to consider lifestyle adjustments. So these could relate to mindfulness to pleasure to masturbation to anything you enjoy, like dancing extra. Is practicing gratitude. The way you socialize talk therapy, of course and sleep adjustments. Because usually sexual symptoms are symptoms related to your overall lifestyle. It's not usually something that can be just addressed with something physical to do with the pelvic region. And I think it's important to note that various isn't about a lack of lubrication, although lube is necessary. And it's not necessarily about a lack of arousal, the folks that I work with will tell you that they want to have sex, and they're in the mood to have sex, and they like what they're doing, but they're still hitting this brick wall, and it's not about knowing not knowing how to do it. It's not about your partner being too big for penetration or the object of your choice being too big. It's not about being too tight. It's not about being too small. It's not about being a so called virgin, it's physiological and often psychogenic response. That results in the muscles contracting, so intensely that penetration becomes painful or impossible, my friend, Meredith dealt with Agnes miss, when she was a teenager, which wasn't too long ago. Now not too long ago at all, and she's here to share her story. Thanks for being here. Thank you for having me. It's really funny because I can see my room from the window. So I made it out like I have a friend, but I really just have a neighbor. Yeah. I don't like you at all. So Meredith is I think it's fair to say in your early twenties. I sure am very early. And her mother is, I think we can say she's in her fifties. She is. So I am I hang with both of you.

00:10:00 - 00:15:06

Yeah. And you described it perfectly. Yeah. Will you're like our middle. What did I say? You're like our middle ground. So you're like the age of like an older sister for me, but a younger sister for my mom. Yes. Yeah. And I probably like to argue I'm closer to your age, but I'm probably closer to her age. No, you're closer to my age, while we shared close she and I don't share clothes. Exactly what we used to share close the two of us. Yeah. More when you were teenager. Yeah. So when you were teenager you were dating boy, a boy is the perfect description. Yeah. Yes. And you ran into this trouble. Can you tell us a little how how you figured it out how it started? Yeah. So I actually when I really trace it back, like I can trace it back to before I was dating anyone because when I got my period, I wanted to use tampons like anyone else, and I could not for the life of me figure out why it wouldn't go it, basically. And I like I remember I was at this, like, summer resort with my mom and we arrived that day, and I got my period that day and like all you wanna do swim in the lake and in the pool and stuff and I was like, oh my God. And I was terrified because I knew I couldn't use tampons and my mom and I spent like two hours in the bathroom, like trying to figure out why it wouldn't work, and we, we had no idea. So then I just I was like, that's fine. I just wear pads in August. Get through it, and it's fine. And then I didn't really have to worry about it again until I started dating. When I was in high school, basically, you're always told like, oh, the for some you have sex kinda hurts. But that's just the first time then you get through it. But when it came to like the day that I'd like decided to lose my virginity. I leave, we got to that point. And I went this hurts more than just a little bit. Well, that's part of the issue too, is that we eroneous deliver this message that Sex's supposed to hurt the first time when, in fact it often hurts, because we're Tensing up often hurts, because we're nervous because we having Zaidi because we're not familiar with our pelvic floor muscles. And so they contract, which, which makes sense the body contracts, many of our muscles in response to nerves anxiety, novelty in a negative way. Yeah. So I think people probably don't even realize the first time that they might be dealing with something different because you've been told that, oh, if it's your first time, putting something in your vagina, it will be painful. Well, it was shocking to me when I found out. When I when I kind of figured out that I did have Vaduz miss that. No one really knows what it is like, it's, it's super, it's a super elusive condition. I it has to do with the vagina because. Yeah. No one wants to talk about that. But I was always that girl like in middle school or I'd be like on my period. And I just like say it's people it'd be like, I'm on my period when you and other places it celebrated. Yeah. Right. Manar the start of your menstruation is celebrated as something exciting, whereas for us. It's a little bit shameful. Yeah. Totally in North America in the west. And although there are some movements of people trying to make talking about your period, normal because it's something that half of the world's population goes through almost twenty five percent of the time, and we make it out like at something gross. You know, there are many jokes about it. I remember when I was young a guy saying I'd never trust anything that bleeds for a week and dozen die. My blood for week. You'd be dead. You're, you're weak. So you figured it out. Did you figure it out when your partner was trying to use their fingers or a toy or penis? Or what, what was it? Yeah. Well, I think I mean, I've tried to do a lot of research on it and everything kind of comes up differently. And I think there's definitely a spectrum of people dealing with it differently because I think, like when we were when we were working with finger somehow it happened. It was never enjoyable for. So when you say it happened, you were able to put the fingers inside. Yeah. But it didn't feel good for you know, I didn't like it, but I thought it was supposed to. So I just thought, well, if we do it enough, eventually, like it'll change like eating olives. Yeah. Ten years later. You're like, all right. Final and all of. Yeah, exactly. And then on the eleventh, you're you love the lives. I still hate, the who do it separate note. Actually, I was with Haley was with you last year, when we were out and like you made me, eat an olive, and I hated it says on her birthday.

00:15:06 - 00:20:03

So America's friend Haley is here, offering moral support she and Haley's having a bit of a rough day. She's broken a bone in her foot ceiling with tonsillitis and it may be if she didn't have tonsilitis. She could join us here. So Haley tried to teach you about all of, let's go back to the budget. Yes. So the fingers went in no problem, didn't enjoy it. Okay. And so we were kind of I mean it's such a touchy subject, even in a relationship, and it causes a lot of tension because you start to think my doing something wrong. Are they doing something wrong? Is there something wrong in our relationship, like what's going on? And so we even found it hard to talk about it for a while. And then we actually came. To you. Actually went. They did is they bribed me with Kraft dinner, we because I do do lovecraft inner owning cheese, and I went over, and we had a little chat, and I felt like I'm very lucky to have you. So, like the closest you could possibly be aren't house face. One another. Yeah. I can look into her bedroom from here. Yeah. And we had a big chat about it. And that I think was the night that you told me that there is treatment available, and that you can go to physiotherapy and, you know, it's not something you just have to live with for the rest of your life. Which, again, I think a lot of people who do have. Jainism ass-. Could never find out about because they're embarrassed because the information's not readily available. Which is why I'm so happy to talk about it on a podcast because I want people to know what it is 'cause I've been in other situations where I've like you know, been of the person just for one night. And it didn't it wasn't happening for me that night, and I'll talk a bit more about the treatment later, but I said, like, oh, well, I have this thing called badges, and they looked, and they said, oh, that doesn't sound real was like, I know it sounds like a made up word, I think if Brennan murder here, he'd say, is it contagious? Yeah. It sounds like a disease is the only one who could catch Jonah. What's that? China. I think it'd be better if you're really high and saw the vagina on his side. So so you did go for treatment. I did after you recommended a clinic for me to go to. And that was also was all very nerve. It's scary because it's like the most vulnerable part of you, and, like, bringing it to a stranger to like, fix it. What do you for me today? I have brought my vagina. I have my China for you. So I went to the clinic and there it was mentioned, what like the name of the you can stay whatever you want. It's called life. Mark downtown Toronto. They're awesome. And it's a long way for a lot of people who are listening. However, are pelvic floor physiotherapists across North America. And we can we can put some links for you on the website as well. Yeah, and I went there and they were also lovely. And they had like, you know those, those. Dioramas you have like from school with the like skeleton and everything, but it was the vagina. And they like told me about your pelvic walls, and like took it apart for me to see, like exactly what was going on and told me where I had tightness and stuff. And then basically for four months, I said, I said this yesterday to Haley performance, I was clinically fingered basically which it's sounds funny also had to pay for I sure did. Yeah. Like in a sense, they do a physical exam, which involves looking in your vagina touching in your vagina in various areas of your Jonah. And they basically asked me. How does it feel here? Is there pain here? They ask you like on a scale of one to ten, what is the pain? Is it like shooting tightness? What is it in? Did you have homework in between your clinical fingering sessions? Yes. So they actually they. They sold me this. I like to call it like a Russian doll. Stacking doll dildo. Right. So it was a dilated set. Dilated says different size insertion objects. And what do you call those Russian dolls where one comes in out of the stacking doll? I think there's a word for it, though. Yeah. That's basically what it was. It was like there was smaller one and then you could click in, like larger pieces and basically she told me I had to go home, and as often as possible.

00:20:04 - 00:25:02

Just like work with it, and do the exercises that we are doing in my appointments, which had a lot to do with, like I learned how to reverse Kegalle like, yeah, that's a big misconception. A lot of people have for many years, believed that key goals are the answer to all of our problems. When, in fact, many of us should not be doing eagles contra indicated for instance, in many cases of Genesis. Yeah. You actually have to do the opposite, which is to release an relax the muscle. And if you imagine that you are doing, for example, bicep curls. Yeah. If you never went back down the muscle wouldn't function properly. So when you are Tensing up or if you do too many eagles. It's like you're Konstanty in that curl state, and the muscle can't function, unless it learns to both contract and release. So they would have been probably teaching you how to release. And so if you want to try that right now just for your own experimentation. It's as though you're pushing something gently out of your vagina. And I'm doing it now you're probably yet, we're all. Doing. You can't help it. It's like the night before you go to the dentist. You're like, oh, gotta floss before you see solid just who better do the key goals. Whether it's the contraction he's saying, yeah, you did the homework you practice. I assume breathing really deeply with the different size dilates working your way up just to backtrack. A bit. Some people whose cases perhaps, even more severe, we might begin with a Q tips. So back when I worked with clients, I remember many of them would begin with acute because it just was so incredibly tense. And also traumatic yeah. Yeah, because I, I mean, I haven't I've done a little bit of the reading because I was so curious about myself, and I've read that, like it can no one really knows what the causes for, like, why you would have veges miss, but mostly like anxiety. Rooted. And like from there can be like traumatic pasts that can trigger it as well. So, yeah, I, I was lucky actually because I didn't have to. I wasn't at that severe point. But were you assigned any other physical exercises like squats or curls cat curls? I was actually signed it was a lot. It was a lot of tactile stuff. Like, I think part of it for me was, like, you know, girls aren't really taught to, like, no, their vagina. And so, like, I was like afraid to touch my like I was basically like. I don't wanna look at it. Like there was a lot of I think being uncomfortable with that, that I had to work through. And so, like it was there an I just had like a tightness in my muscles that I could like I was told to massage out, basically inside your vagina, or a along, like along the mostly. And, and getting to know your body in that we changes everything 'cause it is this, one area from which we're supposed to derive such extreme pleasure. But we're also taught that we hold shame there. Yeah. Right. And I know that you weren't raised in a household where you were told it was dirty. I mean first of all, she's a different generation, and your parents are very open in the first person you told about this. I'm going to presume was your mother. Yeah. She knows all about it. And so you, you told your mother you came to me, you went to video therapist, you were as you said, clinically fingered to help you to learn to relax the muscles. Yeah, you did exercises and massage at home. And then how did you figure out that you were done that you were ready in the in the first appointment that I had? They said normally they after they like assess where I was at the estimated that it would probably take about four months. And then when we were in the fourth month of treatment, they were right. And I had made a lot of improvement. Because of going to my appointments and doing my homework. And they asked us like are using tampons now is that comfortable for you? Does it like do you even notice? It's there and like no. And then basically my physio, therapists said, yes. So I'm going to tell you that you probably shouldn't make another appointment because I can't really do anything more for you. I've given you all the exercises that you can do. And it's kind of, in your hands now to take care of it for yourself. So like she she ended it there. And then did you feel you were ready? I mean you said virginity, I know virginity means different things to different people, you're talking about putting a penis in your vagina. Yeah. The penis if you're choosing. And so were you able to do this around that time was interesting because my like relationships atas had changed around that same time? So, you know, and it's definitely it's a lot more nerve racking. I think as a single person to figure this out because you don't have a person that you have this like.

00:25:04 - 00:30:02

Familiarity with and like trust with in the same way. So, like I said, I after my treatment, I had like a one night stand with someone and it didn't happen for me because of anxiety. I don't like there's lots of other factors there. But because with for someone who has has missed like it's always going to be a little bit more work when you're trying to have sex because you have to, like, think you have to think about your exercises while you're trying to do that. Which can, you know, if it's not in the right situation, it can definitely take away from the pleasure. So you try to hook up with someone. Yeah you were feeling nervous or uncomfortable. Or it was you weren't able to. Yeah. Penetrate? Yeah. And this was after the treatment, and I knew that I could before because I had my dilated and I had an I use tampons and all that stuff. I was like, I knew that the treatment had worked, right? And then I had the capability, but that night it just. Wasn't working, and it's like it's not a straight line out which I think was a hard pill to swallow for me. But since then I have been successful which is great news. You know, I'm nervous because I don't know the next time if I will be because it's not. Flipping switch? Right. Yeah. And especially if your body has been trained to tense up in response to a specific feeling in your case it might be arousal. So oftentimes our bodies, relax in response to arousal and now your body has been trained in one direction. And of course, what you will find is that your body and your brain will become retrained to experience arousal or desire with relaxation and pleasure over time when if you're not doing it regularly, you might take a little bit longer, and that's okay. Are you telling a new partner that you that you deal with? Genesis I, yeah, I probably would I think, so. Because I yeah. I think it would come up eventually. So I don't think that most teenagers. I can't remember exactly how old you are. But you were in high school have necessarily a sexologist living across the street or a mother who will engage with you in the supportive. And really understanding way that your mum, engages with you. So I don't know that everyone would be as prepared to discuss it with their partner. But you did discuss it with, with your teenage boy, friend. Right. Yeah. And what was his response? I'm trying to remember. Mostly very supportive to like it was, I mean, I think it's tough from that perspective, even when you hear that there is something that can be done about it to not. Blame yourself a little bit even a few here that it's not your fault like it's really tough to not feel insecure in that situation. But I think we did get to that point. I mean unfortunately with the timing of my treatment, and that relationship didn't quite match up properly. But, you know there were you know there were times when. We would get frustrated at each other because there was like stuff that I probably should have been doing more. That was like only things I could work on. But we're it was, you know, sometimes difficult for me to do the homework like traumatic in a way because it's not fun. It was like, really like almost emotional labor to do that. And so I would put it off a lot, like I wouldn't wanna do it, which probably I probably could've ended my treatment sooner had I not done that. But, you know, we're humans and imperfect and busies you. Yeah. And also like the thing is the, the homework I was living at home, and it's like you're basically, your homework is to masturbate, you know, and it's like you have to it's I set it to my mom time I was like I, I don't really know how to maneuver this because I don't wanna go. Don't come in my room. I'm like, putting a dildo inside of me right now. You know. Like can I just have my privacy, even though, like I wish I could just I wish that was just a normal thing for people to say I mean, you've always had a key to our house, but maybe it wasn't empty your. Yeah. My husband's a busy place. It is the ninth person in and out of the house today. Exactly. Yeah. So it's, oh, it's so it's very complicated. Even that because I could say, like oh, it's an easy fix you go to your physiotherapist get your homework and you do it. But it's like a lighter. Not, it's, you know, vaginas are touchy subject. Yeah. And you're one of the lucky ones whose budgets into societas with trauma, specific.

00:30:02 - 00:35:00

Yeah. Even though the process itself of overcoming, I'm sure felt traumatic at times. Right. And so you talk about talking to your boyfriend. And I think that this is such an important piece. And I think that most people are not equipped to do this, and for you to be able to do that as a teenager and for your boyfriend to engage as well, we have to give you credit if you were to go back, would you do anything differently? I think I would I would definitely keep up the same amount of communication. But I, I would probably work a little bit harder to do. The work I needed to do on my end and especially coming from like in hindsight, like I can go, oh, you're going to be fine. You know, in the moment, I didn't know and I was like nervous all the time to do that kind of stuff. So, yeah, I don't think I would too many things differently and for people who are dealing with Genesis or even have a friend, who has genus because I think this is something that a lot of people don't know where to begin response to what would advice you have for them or insights from your story. Get to know your vagina. She's nice. She doesn't fight. Ninety eight point six percent of China's do not have teeth mostly, yeah. Exactly one point four percent. There's somewhere way way down in the south. You're gonna watch out for them. But if you don't have teeth, you're, you're gonna you're gonna be absolutely fine. So touch and explorer, touch an explorer and. Breeds. Do your reverse key reverse giggles. Honestly saved me like there, it's actually something very simple to that. You can work on, on the bus like while you're watching TV you can do it anytime. And like that's what I when I'm putting tamp on an I reverse go when I take it out reverse key goal. Like I still think about it like, it's yeah. I don't know their little tools like that, that are just easy. If you can get to a physiotherapist, get to them, sooner rather than later because you could be like tightening up more over time. I also have to do a reverse goal to insert a tampon. I find insertions uncomfortable when I'm aroused when I'm having sex. I don't find it uncomfortable. But when I'm not aroused, it, it just feels really uncomfortable to me, and I described verse Kegalle as pushing out with your vagina. Do you have another terminology? I'm sure your physiotherapist. How did they teach you to do a reverse Kegalle? Well, they said that a lot of the time you reverse Kiko. When you breathe out without even realizing it. So when you breathe in you keel in, and then when you breathe out he go out. Also, if you like if you if you know how to like open your but it goes with it like they go at the same time, mostly the anal factors tend to release when public floor muscles release in the annals enters tend to tense up. However, you will have a just for my physio therapist pelvic floor people. They will also teach you to isolate your pelvic floor muscles, without your annals Victor muscles. If you are for instance learning to do key goals. I love when I say, like release your but and then you go, yes. Your. Annals fink. You've never seen a you're here for. Well, another interesting finding I recall from previous research, is that women who perform self examination of their vulva, meaning people who just look down there. Yeah. Have better body image. They're more likely to seek medical treatment when they need it, and they have better sex. Yeah. So there are all these benefits. So I always ask people when I go into a classroom, or a group where we're talking about sex or body image. I asked them to with plasticine build me a penis, and everyone can build me a penis, no problem. Ask them to build a Volva, and they don't even know where to begin. Sometimes I asked them to build a clitoris, and they only build the round, head of the clitoris, and then I take a penis, and I cut it off and say this is the equivalent. So the clitoris has a head. The penis has a head. The clitoris has shaft the penis shaft, the Torres has the corporate cavern OSA in corporate sponge, assume, which are sort of like the easiest way to describe it as they're almost like tubes that fill with. Blood and get a wreck shins. The clitoris has foreskin the penis house foreskin the legs and the bulbs of the clitoris are on the inside, like accessible through the labia. So they're the same the clitoris in the penis are very similar. They're Malaga's and their derived from the same material. But we don't even know what they are right now. I didn't know any of us until you just said it right now.

00:35:00 - 00:39:06

How never been to my sessions. I don't know because there wasn't Montreal Montreal once a year. Honestly. And also you were eight you're under eighteen most of the time, I've known you that. That when I was like fourteen. Yes. Yeah. So my point is that we don't know our bodies. Well, and you know, that's a reminder that it should do an episode on the clitoris and what it is. And what it isn't. And how it's not just that little Najah. That's only the head. So when they ring it like a doorbell that's like poke in on the head of the penis. And so, my gosh, so, no, I love when I blow someone's mind. I hired her folks. So the bottom line is, if we don't look at our bodies. We can't know our bodies, and even though you can't look at your entire clitoris you can look at your entire vulva, and it changes the way you feel about your body. So hopefully you see this as, as a positive coming out of it overall definitely. Yeah. It took away like so much of that. You know, shame that you're told you're supposed to feel about your own body, which is ridiculous. Yeah, I was very positive and the end kid. Well, thank you so much for being here. Thank you for having me. If you or a friend or someone you love is dealing with Baginda Smith or any other sexual challenge. You can offer immediate support simply by opening the door to discussion. We do not talk enough about sex, and we certainly do not talk enough about sex when we're running into pain for problems, we have all had sexual challenges. I know for me. I have trouble with penetration at times, when I'm tense, it's not necessarily painful. It's just harder to do my body just closes up shop. I have difficulty clearing my mind. When I stopped practicing my mindfulness ex. Sizes regularly, I know of Brandon were here. He tell you that when he's nervous or distracted, his body doesn't always respond the way he wants it to. And none of our sex lives is perfect. So if you simply open up about your sexual struggles you'll give others permission to do the same. But if you act like everything is perfect. They feel pressured to do the same. And then we're all faking it. And if you're looking for more information on Paul Vic health, regardless of gender, check out, Dr Suzie gronkowski's work at Dr Suzie, G dot com, and it's Susie with two S's, or as I said, follow the pelvic, mafia. Hash tag on Twitter. We need to talk more about sex, not in a braggadocious way, not in a performance way. But in a real way, that acknowledges, the ups the downs the in betweens, not every sexual experience will be ten and sometimes you have to work through the ones the twos. The threes to get to the best experiences and it's a roller coaster. It's not a steady climb, and it's the ups and downs that make it so exciting. Thank you for tuning in today. Please subscribe to this podcast share on social media, if you like it, and find me sex with Dr Jess on all social media, send your questions in at sex with Dr Jess dot com. Thank you. Desire resorts in cruises for your ongoing support, please follow desire, experience, online and let them know that I sent you wherever you're at have a great one. You're listening to the sex with Dr Jess podcast improve your sex life improve your life.