How To Talk To Your Kids About Porn
Jess and Brandon talk about celebrity relationships (again!). Then Nadine Thornhill joins them to share practical advice on how to talk to your kids about sex, porn and body image.
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Jess received a related question from a fellow listener. Here is her advice...
My ex wife tells me that she caught our teenage son watching porn. She was mortified and wants me to talk to him about it. Where do I even begin?
If you don’t talk to your kids about porn, Google, YouTube, SnapChat and their friends will. Oftentimes, they’re not looking for porn, but they stumble across it or their friends present it to them, so it’s essential to have conversations before they encounter this type of material.
If you feel uncomfortable talking to them about porn or sex, in general, use this discomfort to open the conversation. Admit that it makes you nervous so that they learn from your ability to acknowledge vulnerable emotions. They’ll also learn that it’s important to have uncomfortable conversations.
I suggest that you start by asking them if they have any questions and reminding them that it’s normal to be curious. Even if you don’t want them to watch porn, you don’t want to intensify any shame they may already feel around sex. You can let them know that porn isn’t intended for folks their age and remind them that what they see in porn isn’t what sex looks like in real life. Young people tend to learn about sex from porn because they don’t have access to other resources. And adults do the same. Offer a reminder that what they see in porn includes acting, special effects, editing, and sexual olympians. Just as they don’t learn about relationships from Jersey Shore and they don’t learn to drive watching Fast and the Furious, porn is not designed as a form of education. It can be entertaining and titillating, but it’s not produced with education in mind.
Since you’re their parent, you can share your personal values related to porn and remember that your experience may not be their experience.
Finally, consider offering them other resources they can turn to if they’re curious about sex. My colleague Nadine Thornhill talks about curating sexuality resources for your kids so that they don’t have to curate their own. Whether you send them to a site like Scarleteen for sex and relationship education or you direct them to erotica sites that reflect a greater diversity of bodies and more realistic interactions, it’s up to you. Regardless of your comfort level with this topic, remember that your child will inevitably seek out resources, so it’s up to you whether or not you want to be a part of the process.
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Rough Transcript:
This is a computer-generated rough transcript, so please excuse any typos. This podcast is an informational conversation and is not a substitute for medical, health or other professional advice, diagnosis or treatment. Always seek the services of an appropriate professional should you have individual questions or concerns.
How To Talk To Your Kids About Porn
00:00:05 - 00:05:00
You're listening to the sacs with Dr Jess podcast, sex, and relationship advice you can use tonight. Welcome to the sex with Dr just podcast. I'm Brandon wear, and I'm just Riley, your friendly neighborhood sexologist. When it comes to sex, you no longer have to have the talk with your kids, but you do want to have multiple conversations and keep them going start naming their genitals from the time. They're babies talk about where babies come from, and how they are made as soon as they are curious at an age appropriate level and keep talking about relationships sex, and even porn in their preteen and into their teen years today, we will be chatting with needing Thornhill sexuality educator, author, and Toronto consultant. But I. Let's take a moment to go back to celebrity relationships because last week, we talked about Aida curry Steph curry, and Steph curry. I think the takeaway was that Brandon is not Steph curry. I remember that. Okay. I am not step jury. Well, that's actually the perfect segue into what I wanna talk about. Which is, you know, sarcasm in relationships and I have a bit of a sarcastic. Sarcastic sense of humor very dry. A lot of people don't get me hold on. Is that what you say when people don't laugh at your jokes? Just get me it's like art. You don't get it. Okay. People may not laugh, but somebody loud love. And can I tell you actually one thing I noticed is that you laugh at all of my jokes even the little ones under my breath. It's why you think I'm so sexy. Isn't that one of the things that if the person finds you funny that they think you're more attractive, some iteration of that? It always makes me feel really loved, though. I always think on man. This guy gets me and the reason I'm bringing up celebrity relationships once again, is that I see that John legend has a I don't know if it's an Instagram show trailer sessions, thriller talk, isn't it? Oh trailer talk. Or maybe I'm wrong, maybe his trailer. So I don't actually know Brandon's. John legend farmer. Huge John legend. Fant we got to go to his concert a couple years ago and it was really a powerful concert. He's a talented man. There are few performances that I've seen in my life and a few things. And that performance was incredible. It was so powerful. The he's an incredible performer. And the funny thing is you weren't even really a fan until after you went to the concert because it was me who wanted to go. We came home and I bought, like all of his albums, and started listening to everything right away. But there is some really powerful messages in his performances. Well, black lives matter. Obviously racial inequality like there was more than just a performance. There was a message in that performance. That's right. And now that he's achieved this level of fame, he'd, no longer has to sing what they tell them to sing. He can make music about what matters to him and that was readily apparent in that performance that he can make music. And convey messages that matter to him. He has a song about it, actually, which one do you sing it to go? All right. Are you really going to try? I have a really really bad voice, how bad I just say the words and then you can sing. So some folks, sing what they want or what they know we're already not getting very far. So follow seeing what the. See what they come on how I actually don't know. How are we going to have to delete, this whole pack song that you're trying to home, right? Anyway. Okay. So John legend was hosting his Instagram show, and Chrissy Teigen came on, and they were adorable together. And she was joking around, she's very funny. She's also very sarcastic. And there were some mean messages directed at Crecy on the Instagram post some people just saying that John is so likeable in she is so unlikable. I was wonder who writes stuff like that. Are you very likeable if you're willing to just insult a stranger, maybe people had more of an issue with what she supports? I don't think so. No, I mean, both of them share the same politics are not. Do I respect her more for throwing back at certain people? Oh, that's right.
00:05:00 - 00:10:01
She did get in the big fight with Trump right on Twitter. So did he though I think he chimed in? I could be wrong on that. But let's, let's go to the issue at hand. So one, young woman writes that I don't have the exact quote, I can't find. It now 'cause the guy has a kazillion comments on his on his Instagram. So I read it earlier, basically that she doesn't like how Chrissy talking to John in this clip Crecy should be more supportive, especially when people are watching and not cut her man down with the sarcastic jokes. So I- rewatch the clip. I didn't really see her cutting him down, it seemed like they were joking around with consensually healthy banter, and again, I think I just wanted to bring this up before we get started with Nadine too. Remind offer a reminder that are commentary on other people's relationships, usually reflects our own issues with our own relationships, you don't know John and Chrissy, only, I know John. That's what I was thinking. I'm a who are you to comment on somebody else's relationship, and what and how they're interacting with one another endless you how you're privy to something that none of us know? Right. And first of all, is your comment helpful. Do you think that Christie's gonna sit back and say on, man, you know what I really do need to look at the way, I talk to John because this stranger who doesn't know anything about our dynamic has shown me the light? Or do you think John is gonna look at it and say all? Yeah. You know what this woman, whom I love deeply who I share this wonderful life and happy relationship with, who with whom we, we share mutual respect and love and care, and tenderness. And Larry I thought it was good. But this strangers telling me, it's not her sarcasm is, is probably more than I should be willing to take come on, folks. Steve's from Michigan really shed some new light on our relationship, you know what I'm out brilliant, and it's not. Helpful. So just a reminder that celebrities are people, too. And also that if you are feeling inclined to comment on someone else's relationship just take a look at your own and see what you can work on. Because I, I can be like this I can be a hater at times, not with John, Chrissy, because they're so also. But I catch myself when I'm hating on someone else if I feel something towards someone else, it's usually 'cause I got something to work on. And I have lots of stuff to work on your. I think if you took that to heart and started focusing in every time you wanted to critique somebody else you just took a second to look at where that may be originating. You probably would make the comments and you'd be a much better version of yourself before we invite me dean to join us, we wanna shadow desire resorts in cruises with two clothing. Optional properties on the Mayan Rivera and multiple high end beautiful cruises in the Mediterranean, and in the Greek isles, they've created a vacation experience for couples. Unlike any other, it's a place where you can let loose yourself and really. Reconnect with your partner and not just sexually, but an intimate ways that can last for months and beyond. So make sure to check out desire experience on Instagram to learn more. Now it is our pleasure to welcome Nadine, Thornhill, sexuality educator, author consultant based in Toronto Ontario, my almost neighbor. Yes. Yes, you lose to live in my old neighborhood. That's right. Yeah. And I think for most Americans were close enough that we would be in the same neighborhood. I think so. Absolutely. I could walk to your house, you could. Yeah, it would be a bit of a walk. But it's doable. You know, I was in Atlanta last weekend. You probably know Marlowe Renee Stewart. She's another sexual I knew of her. Yes. Definitely. So she had a fabulous wedding. Ooh, it was sexy military theme. Because her partner Esther was, I believe, captain, in the US marines. Oh my God. Yes. And anyhow, no one seems to walk in Atlanta, except along the beltline, which is a walking path. Okay. But I walked all the way from downtown to way beyond midtown. And I was the only person I walked, I think sixteen kilometers that day. Wow. I think I was the only person on the streets, the whole time I saw the photos of the beltline it looked incredible. Yeah. The beltline is this development area in Atlanta where they're developing thirty three kilometers of mixed use trails. Oh, I love that. Yeah. And there are restaurants and cafes all along them all. That sounds a Lanta has such lovely weather all year round. That makes total sense. Exactly how take advantage of it. Yeah. Everyone I talked to there was a transplant from the northeast. Uber driver. I said, what brought you here I was cold in jersey. Yeah. Three degrees in the middle of may here in Toronto. Okay. So three degrees is about forty degrees for normal for American listeners Americans often that it's cold here all the time. It's not like this is often when the summer weather starts to kick in.
00:10:01 - 00:15:04
So this is this is unacceptable to me. Well, the American headlines last week where that Canada get snow. So some Americans were saying, oh, it must be snowing, where you're at said. No. That's we owed in Calgary. Yeah. I'm much closer to New York than I am to count. Although the weather does blow, but it's okay because life is good. Now do you have a new YouTube series lated for release? Tell me about it. So I am co hosting a new series called sex, Ed school, and the series is aimed at tweens and their family. So our target demographic is sort of the nine to twelve year old range and the premise of the series is that we are actually in a classroom. I am one of two teachers and we have a class. Of about. I believe it's ten students of all different ethnicities and, you know, all different ages. We've got some who are older kids, and some were just on the cusp of becoming teenagers, and they're eight episodes to begin with each episode features different topics or very first episode. We're talking about consent. We have an episode on gender. We have an episode on kissing. We have an episode on genitals, and yet, it's been a really wonderful experience. We shot it about two months ago now and it was phenomenal. I can't wait for people to see it. I can't we wait for people to see our classroom and our students they were just phenomenal every single kid, we had was amazing, and they're just regular kids, you know, they're not actors or anything. They're just kids who are curious and smart, and bright and have all kinds of questions and are curious about their bodies in the world and density, in all sorts of things. So. I feel like those topics aren't just for tweens exactly consent kissing genital parts. I bet you most adults can learn a lot from this. And that's what we're hoping the we're it's aimed toward kids, and it's very kid friendly. But what we're hoping is that their parents and their families will sit down and watch it with them and will realize that not only can you actually discuss these topics with kids in developmentally appropriate way. But, you know, we're hoping that they will learn things also because something that I've realized as an adult is that, there are a lot of gaps in our knowledge about our bodies, and our relationships with people. And so, you know, sort of learning these things as our kids are learning them, sort of helps to fill in for us to that's really one of the challenges as a parent is that we're expected to talk in a sophisticated and expert way about these topics about, which we have our own hangups. Oh, absolutely. I mean even having the. Job that I have, and having done this for over a dozen years now I still find when I'm talking to my own child that I bump up against things. I think, you know, man, I really have my only shoes around this, that I still have to work through, or I'm not sure exactly how to say this to him because this is nothing that anyone ever talked to me about when I was his age. So. What exactly is the language that I use to help him understand some that I only learned about, you know, when I was in my twenties, my thirties it can be easier to give advice than to follow it. Because when you're helping a client or your coaching another, parent or even talking to another child. You don't have the sense of responsibility that you have to your own child. No absolutely not. I don't have the emotional investment. And I'm also prepared when I go in to speak to a parent when I go into a classroom I knew exactly when I'm there. I know exactly what I'm talking about. You know, I refreshed my mind the night before, you know, done all my research. I have all my notes. Whereas my child has a real talent for asking me questions. When I am not prepared at all at the least least opportune time when we're on the subway, and then he suddenly decides to ask me, something about semen, like my but I don't. No. Yes. So it's completely different. And that's something that I try to emphasize when I work with parents is, don't feel like you have to do this perfectly or you have to have all the answers at your disposal, because even as someone who is an expert. I don't I mess up constantly I make mistakes, I have to go back and correct myself in that part of it, you know, parenting, his heart, it's a lot. You don't have to be perfect. You know, even have to be great at the time. You know, it's fine. If you're just fine headed it's okay he needed to feed them. Yeah. Make sure they get some rest yet love them. Do your best and they'll be okay and hope hopefully instill in them, a good amount of self confidence. I always think that if there's one thing I could give my child, it would be a release, strong sense of self. Yep. Because all of the other skills use, or require a sense of self as your Dacian and stem from that -absolutely.
00:15:04 - 00:20:04
Okay. So you're talking. About educating children and parents and their own hangups in your sexual health educator, with dozen up over a dozen years of experience. Do you think so I went to a Catholic high school? I'm not Catholic, but I went to a Catholic high school. Why did you go to a Catholic to play hockey? Okay. That's the true also for people we live in Ontario, Brandon grew up here, and those are publicly funded school, so you can go there for free. Yes, I did. And I had five years of religious studies and the extent of our sexual health education included the rhythm did, and that was about it, and for those that don't know the rhythm method because I didn't know what it was. It's the partner in a relationship times their cycle, and you have sex around that time when they're most fertile. So it might not my play. Yeah. And you can imagine a fifteen year old trying to spit that out. So my question is, do you think that the adults that are teaching today, their children to their children sexual health are doing a good job? And if they are, or they aren't do you think that the children who are going to be parents in ten or twenty years, because of how much information they're getting now are going to be better adjusted to their own sexuality? That is my hope. And that's part of why I'm so passionate about working with groups of people who either work with kids or working with kids directly myself because I see that for parents of my generation, we got some sex, Ed, some of us in the Catholic school system, some of the public school system, but again there were a lot of things missing. And so while I think that a lot of parents are at least the parents, I work with are doing the best they can with the resources and the information they have. Because the information may have been given is limited because the education they received was limited and very restricted in a lot of ways, you know, a lot of the education but was very hetero normative, even something like the rhythm method soums that you're having heterosexual, sex likely in the context of marriage that one of your goals around sex has to do with pregnancy either avoiding it or making it happen. That's all incredibly narrow. And so we as parents yeah. We often struggle because, you know, when our children, our thinking around things like gender or sexual orientation, and really getting into the expansiveness diversity of sexual experience. We often feel overwhelmed and it's, it's too much, and it's not. But if you don't have the resources if you don't have the knowledge it feels like too much. And so my hope really is that if we can give our choice. Children. A more comprehensive education. Yeah. When they when they get to teach their children, they'll be a little bit more prepared. And then those children will be even more prepared and that as being moved through the generations, eventually, we'll get to a point where, you know, sexuality is normal, and the diversity of sexuality is normal, and it isn't scary and overwhelming to people, it's just one aspect of the human experience. Like emotions are diverse and intelligence is diverse and everything about human beings is diverse and complex, and that's fine. And it's it's embraced, and so many other areas, xactly so cultural diversity is something we celebrate I often talk about comparing food to sex, and how now everybody wants to say the things that nobody else has eaten an explore different food experiences and how those food experiences intersect with family and culture. And the way we gather, but with sex, we have this narrow, narrow view. And if we had that with food we'd be losing out, and I think. We really are losing out sexually as well. Now I wanna talk about porn. All right. Because talking to kids about porn is now an important part of parenting, and I do think it can feel very overwhelming. I think a lot of parents trying to avoid it because they don't know where to begin. They're not sure how to approach it. They struggle with their own sexual hangups around porn and their own aronie, ass- beliefs around porn, you know, that adults tell us that they've learned about sex from port and they should we as adult should be able to differentiate between reality and fantasy. We do it with other movies. But with porn somehow it still exists as a standard. So. Why do we need to talk about porn with our kids? What is the cost of not talking about porn? So there are a few reasons we know from research that children are able to access pornography fairly easily, and they're accessing pornography at a relatively early age.
00:20:05 - 00:25:09
Now there's a lot of a long around that. But what is interesting is there? There wasn't a lot of research about when people accessed porn earlier, and I can this is completely dodo, but I can say that, I saw my first penthouse magazine, I think when I was around ten. I was in a convenience store, with my cousin and we were like, oh, what are those magazines like high up and clerk wasn't watching? And we open one. So sometimes, I think there's a belief that they're exposed to it so much younger. And I'm not sure that they are. But the access is much easier because porn just exists on our magical connected, rectangles, whatever kind than me have it was to get porn. Yeah. You had to work for it. You know somebody had a. Some movie, and it was amazing would discover that their parents had some vault of porn, and it was spectacular. Absolutely. But like well like finding that was like finding gold. Yeah. And now it's just it's just there know so many kids have smartphones or ipads, or they're on their laptops, and they can find it. And, you know, I think when we don't talk to our kids about porn. The thing is that children and most of us are not exposed to sex in real life. Because in our culture sex is something that happens privately. It's intimate. It's behind closed doors. And like a lot of people kids, get to a certain age, and they're just curious oftentimes, they stumbled across porn by accident because they're just sort of googling something around sex, and they don't have the Google skills to be really specific in their search. And so if you will sex over naked people porn is. What's going to come up first? And then that's, that's what they have. And so what we don't want. We don't want our kids growing up with this expectation that sex in real life is like sex, and porn, because it's not the comparison that I often make is kids may watch movies with car chase scenes and they're exciting in their dynamic. And they're loud on their professionally shot and the understand that that is not what driving is like, in real life. But part of the reason they're they really understand that is because most children have been around regular cars and regular drivers. They've been driven around in cars, most likely in, even if they haven't seen cars being driven on the road, and they're like, yeah. Most of the time when we drive, it does not end in explosions, and someone you know, banking up on the sidewalk and taking out a bunch of pedestrians before they crash into a restaurant. That's not driving is. And so with we've porn there. Isn't that? That same real life comparison. And so it can set up a lot of really unrealistic expectations about everything from what your body is supposed to be like to, you know. Just what sex acts are available to you, because a lot of mainstream porn, it's oral sex oral sex and then penetration for like forty five minutes without any kind of I don't even like to call it four play. But just like any kind of non penetrative sex to get people excited, I think it can confuse them about the pizza industry as well. Oh, yeah, absolutely. They think that when pizza arrived is, also the sex arrives, that's not how it works pizza for dinner tonight. Oh no moving your. You certainly can't incorporates eating of the pizza into your sex life, but it's probably not going to be with the delivery person. Well, that's my big hangup. Are my big gripe with porn? If you're gonna order, the pizza could you at least eat the pizza, I thank you Sex's. Good, but pizza, you pay different. Exactly. And up here. Even when it's hot unless you like pizza and then order it have sex, eat it after just show them eating the pizza people. Absolutely. I want to know that someone eight that people with food right now. That hungary. So what do we do? When you realize learn or stumble across the fact that your preteen let's say your twelve year old because you have a twelve year old you see that they have watched porn, the they've been on some porn sites. What is your advice to parents? So my first bit of advice is walkaway take some time for yourself because it can be really, really alarming. There's this tendency to think of our children as being children, and sort of being younger than they may feel that they are. And so even just that evidence that my child is having sort of an adult ish experience can be really jarring and upsetting. And so step back take some calming breaths, walk around the block, even if you have to take a day or two or three to kind of get your head right? Do that nothing.
00:25:09 - 00:30:01
Life changing is going to happen. If you take a couple of days just to get your head on, right. Whereas if you go in and start screaming at them and yelling at them and just going with your first impulse which is like never get this that can do a lot more damage than just kind of leaving it for a day or two. And while you're sort of, once you get calm really sort of think about what are my values around this, what are my values around sex. What are my values around pornography? Water, my values around explicit material, just so you can go in and talk to your kid clear-headedly, and my, the next piece of advice is to understand that it's very common and normal that kids, particularly once they're in Cuba are going to be not only curious about sex. They want to know what it looks like they wanna know what, you know, other people's bodies looked like they are often somewhat -ironically motivated. And so seeing they could body is exciting. It can make you feel good. And that sexual pleasure is again, it's very normal. It's very pleasant. It feels good. And none of those things make your kid a bad person knows things make you a bad parent. None of those things, make your child abnormal. And then when you sort of had some time to process, those things you can go in for the talk and talk about the fact that, you know, again, it's really normal to have these feelings. It's really normal to be curious. It's really normal to see another naked human being or human being in a sexual situation and feel aroused by that. And then you can talk about your values peas, whatever that is, if I was talking to my child, I would say that I think that there are a lot of people who enjoy pornography. But it's something that is produced for adults. That if you haven't had sex if you haven't engaged in sex that it's going to give you sort of a very. It's not going to give you an accurate idea of what sex is like, in real life, and I would use that car chase comparison pornography's movie. It's not real. That's not how sex works in real life. And I would talk about the fact that I think, you know, at this age, you know, if you're like twelve or thirteen or whatever you're probably a little young to be getting most of your sexual ideas from pornography. And then what I would try to do is, I would try to make sure that there were sort of alternative resources available and ones that, you know, may have some nudity in it, and may be a little bit more explicit about sex and how it works. And I know for my child, if I just handed them to him, he wouldn't take them because who wants to get, you know, sexually explicit material from your mom. What's that? It's my mom's version orange. Okay. That's not fun. But I just sort of make sure that he was aware that it was around. And then I would probably just back off. Give them a little space and time that if he wanted to go, and look at those things, they're they are. Do you think that children are waiting until they're eleven or twelve with access to Google? I would assume that it would have been younger that they're finding these sites. And I think that, that can happen. What often happens, though, with younger kids is because they're not what we would call a radically motivated. Porn off, and doesn't hold a big draw for younger kids. Because as soon as they start seeing two people, interacting and naked and it's getting just clue IDs and heaviness and they're like, oh my God. That's disgusting. When they see the fluids that sounds like me. Yeah. But they access it for different reason. I think I think it has to do with the curiosity, the unknown the fact that it's something secretive, it's something that they've never seen in real life. And I like that you differentiate between for example, the twelve year old may be looking for the erotic motivation. It feels nice to feel that way in your body. Absolutely. Whereas eight year old might be just looking at a curiosity. So you gave some very specific and helpful advice on how you would talk to your twelve year old if this happened when they were aid it, you'd be dealing with it in a different way. Yeah. So how might you approach them? If, if you saw that your eight year old had been on a porn site, and your, your child is probably less likely to access it because you are so open about sexuality. They can ask questions about sex. I'm sure they had different books about sex when they were younger he yeah had lots of books about sex when he was younger and whatnot. But I also want to be realistic as he is now twelve and like I said, there's also that just that.
00:30:01 - 00:35:06
Erotic around piece. So that's not something that I really been offering him because again, nobody wants that from their mom. But yeah, with an eight year old I think you can go again. Calm yourself if that's something you need to do going. You can just say, oh, I see that you stumbled across this. Maybe when you were looking for something, did you have a question or was there, something that you wanted to know about? I think that's a good place to start. Because oftentimes again, that's what it is. They were just I just wanted to know something. Oftentimes, it can be vague heard something from a friend. I know some that seems to come up a lot with kids in that age range, like the sort of the seven to nine corridor is they'll hear something like somebody will have said, blowjob. What is blow job? I don't even understand they'll Google. And then, you know what happens so, yeah, if you can say, like, you know, trying to find something there's something you want to know. Did you want ask me a question and your kid might say? Well, yeah. My class was talking about a blowjob. What is a blow job at which point into the question, you know, in a fairly simple way and in line, you put your lips on a penis on a penis? Yeah. And that's uncomfortable for a lot of parents. And I think a lot of kids are going to not delve in deeper. Okay. I can I can say now that I have answered that question for quite a number of a young kids. And I am never had any follow other than why would anyone do that is you? And then they just drop it because, again, they're not radically motivated. It is not something that seems appealing to them. It seems probably at best absurd. And at worst utterly disgusting to them. And so then and then it's usually over and like I said, yeah, if they have stumbled across someone doing it online, they are probably horrified. Never want. See that again, or they don't think they ever want to see it again. And so, yeah, you can just say to them, you know what if you ever find something like that on the computer again, just come and tell me just let me know and we can handle it. And again, if you can say that sort of gentle, non judgement. Away. You know they didn't do anything wrong. It was an accident of that increases the likelihood that they're going to actually come to you, as opposed to if you go with your initial out. I'm scared. I find that really helpful. I also wanna talk about body image. Yeah. With young, folks, because it has always been very difficult to love your body of all of the messages. And I think that there are more mediums. That might be posting images or posting messages that create shame around our body, no matter what if you look like an Instagram model with big lips and a big, but people are criticizing you. If you don't have a big or your about is too big or your lips to bigger to smaller, whatever it is. That is on vogue, mostly by European beauty standards. At the moment, no matter what people are critical of your body. So what has changed about the way we talk to young people about body image? So I think something that has changed is that we actually talked to young people body image, which is not something that I remember hearing a lot about when I was growing up. I definitely remember hearing a lot of body commentary as someone who's always sort of tended towards being thin for me. It was a lot of random approval. Even when I was a child that was very confusing to me, because instinct, sort of like I didn't I didn't do anything. I don't understand why people are talking to accomplish something. And then when I also heard was a lot of caution with other people who may be weren't as thin about, you know, watching their weight. And this person is getting little big. This person is getting a little bit thick. And so now, I think, at least we're conscious enough that we are trying to navigate these conversations with our kids about, you know, body acceptance, and how they're just they're a diversity of bodies out there and everybody isn't good body. But some something I think that we do need to be conscious of as parents is that we know our kids are sort of navigating all of this, in the images, or coming up fast and furious even more so than people our age when we just had magazines and TV and that was an off. I think something that we can really be conscious of is how we talk about our own bodies. Particularly if we're raising kids because I remember for me that was more influential than anything else. I ever saw was listened to the way my mother talked about her own vodka and listening to my mother being critical of her own body and thinking to myself.
00:35:06 - 00:40:16
I never want to feel like that about my body and sort of equating, that sort of. Hypercritical nece with having a bigger body, that was just something that you were obligated to do so, especially no money, even just for women. I'm just like really watch how you're talking about. And how you are treating your body because your kids will pay attention to that. And the other thing I think we can do is that when we hear our kids, because they will invariably pick up these social messages about, you know, this is a good body. This is a bad body. I wanna body like this. I wanna body like this. I don't want to buy any like this is just asking them questions, and helping them to sort of think through, what are you actually saying in thinking? It's not necessarily they're gonna click for them right away. You know, it's something that they have to process over time. But, you know, if they if you hear your kid talking about someone being fat in a negative way as though that's a character flaw say to them. Well, why, why do you think that's bad? Why, why do you think it's bad to be fat? You know, I don't know if I've. Told the story on the podcast. But when I was a kid, I remember stint. I was going to hold the door in grade one. So you got to hold the door while all the other kids were going in from recess. Yeah. I remember that I was definitely I was probably a teacher's pet and so I often got to hold the door, and I remember this woman woman, she was also in grade one, so this girl came up and was pissed at me. And she stopped on my foot and I went home, and I said to my mom won't say her name. But I said, so and so stopped on my foot. She's fat in my mom backed me up. And she said, is that a good thing or a bad thing while you're saying she's fat? And I said, she's fat in I was used in a very derogatory way. And my mom said, you know, maybe she stomped on your foot because other people aren't nice to her because she's fat you're making fun of her for being fat. This is how I remember my mom saying it, and my mom was always a what we call pearls of wisdom person. So, I was, I think six years old, 'cause I was in first grade. And I remember how young I was 'cause you got to move to the bigger playground when you're in second grade. So, I was I was the eldest, I could have. Was the oldest I could have been was first grade. And my mom said, you know what you try talking to her. What don't you try being friends to her? Maybe people aren't that nice to her. And so I became at you, I went and talked to her, because my mom made me and I turned it turned out. I really liked her, and she invited me over, and I will never forget that when I got to her house, her mom looked at me and said, look how cute and skinny, you are all look how fat so and so my daughter is and as a six year old in my head. I remember thinking, God them my mother was right? This poor girl. Not only does she face this level of discrimination at school. But she's getting shamed at home. Now, of course, I don't think I thought it in those were, of course. Yeah. And I even remember being invited to her birthday party at Douglas, snow swimming such a cripple. It was a cruel pool. At had a slow I did that had these rubber mats. You could run. Yes. Oh my God. Yes. So this is a Toronto thing it's nice to have another thing. Things that you would be death, traps in legal lawsuit. Issues today. Yeah. Best Paul these fun things don't exist anymore in the same way. Anyhow at at her birthday party, I'm a little eat a lot, and I was going for more and more doughnuts, and her mom said, no, no, no. I don't want you to get fat. No doughnuts for you. And I thought, oh my goodness, another layer this poor little girl is dealing with. And it always went back to. And at always comes back to that my mom was right. In everything we do. And I think one of the real struggles with talking about porn, and with talking about body image is that we have to unpack our own stuff first Lutely. And so I think that's almost that's a gift. You give your kids and it's a double whammy, because you're taking care of some stuff for yourself as well up -solutely. And sometimes when you're packing it, you can be honest with your kids about. No, I you know, for a long time, I've had a really hard time because, you know, people were always talking to me about how I had to have a certain kind of body and I still feel really bad about that. And I hope that, you know, I don't make you feel like that. Or you can say you know what? Yeah. Sexes, sexist tougher. A lot of people to talk about. It's hard for me to talk about too, sometimes so, yeah, you know, when I find out that, you know, you've seen something on the commuters, sometimes it makes me feel kind of weird it gets feel awkward about it. You can be honest about that stuff with your kids, too, because we all have hangups and confusions and complex feelings around that can be really reassuring for them to know that it's not just them who are trying to navigate all of this, and don't have all the answers now, I find that probably the most important piece of advice as, as you said, from the gecko you don't have to be perfect.
00:40:17 - 00:45:01
And when you admit to your kids into your partner in to yourself, that you're not, you can have more meaningful conversation. I think so. So knitting, thank you so much for being here. Can you tell us where people can find you and your you, you're new YouTube series? So our new sheet up, our new series launches later this summer. So. So if you go to sex, Ed school dot CA, that's our website. And that's the portal for everything were also on Instagram at sex, Ed school. And as for me, I am Nadine Thornhill everywhere, on the internet needing heal dot com at needing Thornhill on Twitter and Instagram needing Thornhill on YouTube, and you can Email me info at knitting or just leaving Thornhill, and you'll find Bank you so much. Thank you for having me. I always appreciate nadine's insight and advice for a couple of reasons. I she's always very practical with her advice. It's nothing esoteric. It's always very specific. And then, Secondly, I really appreciate that even with diverse groups of parents and learners and teachers, she is willing to meet them exactly where they are. So if you wanna tell your kid for instance, that it's okay to watch porn. When you're older, Soviet if you wanna tell your child that, you know what? I don't really like porn here my issues with. Porn that works too. So I think it's important to realize that the best educators and the best, the real experts are those who acknowledged that you are the expert in your parenting skills. You are the ultimate expert in what your children or child can handle other than themselves. No one knows them better than you do. And before we go, I want to quickly recap on. Nadine's process for talking about porn with you see that your child has been interacting with porn online. The first piece is to walk away and come back and talk to them when you're calm. The second is to once you talk to them, validate normalized. Let them know that it's okay that they're curious then you're going to outline your feelings and values about a particular topic, and then you're going to open up the floor for questions and keep it open. And then finally, and I think this is so important, you are going to look for other resources to support them in their journey of learning about sexuality resources that are age appropriate, perhaps resources that better reflect your values you are going to curate a library of sorts, whether it's digital or video or audio or going to YouTube series like sex, Ed school hosted by Nadine and co hosted there's another host as well. You are going to create. Their sexual library so that they can discover and learn so that they don't go to Google and YouTube because in the absence of comprehensive sex education in the absence of open communication, with parents and other trusted adult sources of information, we know that, that's where kids are turning. They are turning to Google. They are turning to YouTube, and there is great information out there, if you are willing to curate it, and there's also information with which you do not want them to engage. I wonder where do you think your children are going to learn if they're not learning from professionals from resources that are helpful? Now I don't have a child, but looking back or we don't have children. But looking back at how my parents taught me, it was don't come home with a child, because they were uncomfortable having that conversation with me. And as awkward as it might have been for my mom or my dad to say here are a bunch of resources when I was ten. Eleven or twelve at least it would have created somewhat of a foundation for me to refer to as opposed to looking at porn and the pizza delivery, dude. And thinking that, that's how my relationship was gonna play out because let me tell you it did not. And it shouldn't have the pizza. Yeah. Yeah, I'd alongside any relationship with my hand for years. How old were you when your parents told you not to come home at the baby? I think I was like seventeen or eighteen so all those years before. Then the other thing is we didn't have access to porn nearly as readily as people do today. I remember watching the squiggly as I called it late at night. The porn channels, come on, and they were all scrambled. And you might see nipple every now and then but not know who who it was a Russian satellite cross with an American satellite de scrambled it. No, no. They were. They were scrambled. It was those one off nights where they'd be de scrambled. And it would be like winning the lottery. Anyway. I'm not going to get into ladder. I one.
00:45:00 - 00:47:51
I saw one Titi but we didn't have access to very much. I remember being nine or ten and in grade school, or, you know, in elementary school and seeing a naked like everyone seeing nichole body and a dictionary and being interested in what that was all about. And then it kind of progressed when I was eleven twelve thirteen playing hockey, some of the guys would have nudie MAG, and that was kind of where you started learning because again, I'm not faulting. My parents, they may not have been comfortable with it, but they didn't have that discussion with me. So then I learned from what I had access to the access to information today is a million times what it was then. That's right. 'cause you're really old and. I am. I am and the reality is that young people have more access to not only information, but images and videos and other types of what we call data. And so what they need more than ever is assistance contextualising that information because we know that they're engaging with the material. So it's our job is adults to provide the context, so encourage you to check out sex, Ed school. Follow along with Nidia and Thornhill before we go. I think I know the lyrics now to that John legend song that I was trying to sing again. Okay goes will you help me, LeJeune diz, just a name on. Oh, better than to be soprano won't drinking. All this fame. I forget this more than I'm allowed. This is the song I was saying, I think, is about Schumer tro for the voice now. Is he on the voice? He's on a show. Maybe I don't know he's rockstar that guy. I actually he did a duet with crisi on that show. I was referring to. Yeah. It was nothing like the duet. We just end. Apparently she has a nice voice to really wanted to grab the mic and start walking around the room and singing a lie. Okay, off air offer off air, you can do that. Thank you, babe. Thank you for letting me sing. Thank you serenade. No problem. And I guess everyone should. Thank you for not letting. One day, I'm gonna do an Instagram live from our karaoke sessions. Oh, that'd be epic. Yeah. But you guys never let me have the Mike because we're singing rich boy, another. They give me a beer bottle and tell me to pretend for Mike. He's this, Mike. That's not plugged in to Mike. They let me do back up at least I have I can buggy true folks. Thank you so much. Thanks for being here, babe wherever you're at have a lovely week. You're listening to the sex with Dr jazz podcast improve your sex life. Improve your life.
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