Everything You Need to Know About Pee Play

Stellar sex educator Luna Matatas joins Jess to talk about the taboo topic of pee play. Even if pee isn’t your cup of tea, you’ll learn some important lessons that you can apply to your sex life tonight.

Luna Matatas is a burlesque artist, sexuality educator and crafting goddess. She invites you to adore the art of burlesque through her shows and workshops. Luna celebrates femininity, sex-positivity and all things that glitter. Jess became an instant fan and we're sure you will too!

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Rough Transcript:

This is a computer-generated rough transcript, so please excuse any typos. This podcast is an informational conversation and is not a substitute for medical, health or other professional advice, diagnosis or treatment. Always seek the services of an appropriate professional should you have individual questions or concerns.

Everything You Need to Know About Pee Play

Participant #1:
Hello. Hello there. This is Jess O'Reilly of Sex with Dr. Jess, your friendly neighborhood sexologist. And I am here, as usual, to help you to cultivate to create sexual compatibility because it is essential to a lasting, happy relationship. And of course, compatibility is not something you find. It is something you build. And today I am very excited because we are going to be talking about a topic that is a little bit new to me. So I have some rudimentary knowledge, but I have an expert with me who is going to teach us all about water sports and not water sports. You play with a ball. Well, I guess they be some balls, perhaps if you're unlucky. I don't know. Not the type you play with the balls and the nets and the water guns. But urine play P play. So it's my distinct pleasure to welcome Luna Matata's, best guest name ever. And Luna is a Toronto based sex educator. And I saw that recently, Luna, you were facilitating a workshop at Good for her all about P play. Tell me, how did that go? It was such a fantastically fun workshop because people are really nervous around P play, but they're also really excited about it. And so there's lots of questions around. How do I do this safely, or how do I talk to my partner about it? And exploring the creativity that's possible with any type of kinky play was the main point of the discussion. Okay, cool. Well, let's get back to basics. If you can call this basics, why are some people turned on by P in the bedroom? How did pee get moved from the toilet to the sex layer? It took the sexy train to the bedroom. Ppl sort of opens up a variety of sensation play that people can get turned on by. And so sometimes we have a hard time wrapping our head around why you would find something erotic or sexy or sensual that we've been told through sanitation and all kinds of evolution and hygiene that it's something that remains private and it remains in the bathroom. And it's more about bringing an erotic context to something that's seen as nonsexy and bringing it into your regular sex place.

So all the kinds of things that would turn you on in the bedroom around kissing or touching, or maybe you're into domination or submission. Pplay is something that you can add into that it doesn't have to be something that's completely separate. So a lot of people are into the sensations of people that come from the wetness people like the warmth of it. People like the idea of watching pea play. Lots of people like the taste of peep play or ingesting their partner's pee because it's coming directly from their body. Hang on, hang on, I got to stop you there. What does P taste like? That is a really good question. So sometimes P can be very mild. So depending on what fluids have been in your body or particularly your salt or your sugar intake for that day can really alter the taste of your pea. So if you drink, there's a rumor around drinking pineapple juice that would make your pea taste sweeter, and it can affect the taste of your pea and adding a little bit of sweetness to it. But it really is about having a lot of water content if you want a milder taste of pea, that's exactly what I was thinking, because, you know, when you go pee, sometimes it's quite clear. And then you had a day where maybe you drank too much booze and ate too many chicken wings, and it's a little bit darker. Yeah, exactly. But some people are into that darkness. Some people are into the intensification of the P because they feel it's an intensification of whatever's coming out of their partner's body. Okay. I remember when I was young, I had some pee in my mouth, and it was more of an accident. It was an oral sex kind of mishap. And I remember it didn't really taste like much. That's how I would describe it. I think it sort of tastes like a watered down version of black coffee. I don't feel there's a slight bitterness to it when someone drank a lot of excuse me, a lot of water. It's not going to taste like water, but there's a distinct I'm trying to think of the word, but I guess bitter would be the best word to describe it. Well, that's interesting. Because then maybe if you took it a bit deeper in your throat, you wouldn't taste as much because it would pass the I mean, if it's not on the bitter part of the tongue, maybe you would bypass those taste buds. Well, okay. So we've talked a lot about the taste. Probably some people are squirming a little, and I think what we want to do is always remind people not to Yuck someone else's Yum. And if you're into this, that's really cool. And if you're not into it, that's okay, too. So there's no judgment from any side of the many sexual offenses, but we should talk about the safety and health elements. So is it okay to ingest tea? And let's also remind everyone that pplay doesn't have to involve drinking it, right? It could just land on your body. It could be something you smear. It could be something you spray from across the room if you have the anatomy to do so, let's talk about the safety and health component. Yeah, absolutely. And you're right. It doesn't have to be something that you drink that's usually where the Yuck factor comes in. But urine is sterilized, which means it's bacteria free. So in a healthy person, their urine is posing very little risk to you. However, because of the pathway of pea coming out of our body through the urethra, it can pick up any other bacteria that happens to be in the urethra, including bacterial, sexually transmitted infections like chlamydia or gonorrhea. So the risk is there because we're ingesting someone's bodily fluids. But it's a lower risk than many other activities that we might play with, including fluids.

Yeah. For instance. And you can correct me if I'm wrong. But HIV is not transmitted through urine. No, it's not. The concentration would be far too low in things like urine or saliva to be able to transmit infection. And then other conditions need to be in place around having an opening in the membrane of your mouth or your throat of your stomach. So it really depends on the health of both people. But it's very low risk in terms of fluids. Right. We'll just remind people just to super clarify that some bacteria can be transmitted. But HIV, for instance, is not transmitted through urine or saliva because the viral count load is too low. Exactly. But you're still at risk for other STI's, but there's bodily fluids in almost every sexual activity. Right. And of course, there are mechanisms we can use to reduce our risk of transmission. So what would some of those mechanisms or contrast or barrier methods? Sorry. Be to reduce risk of transmission of bacterial infection. When you're playing with pee, when you're playing with pee, you can absolutely avoid ingesting it. And that would reduce your risk to almost nothing. So you can wear pee. You can pee during sex. You can pee around the things that you're having sex with. Some people like to pee on sex toys and watch that. So there's lots of watching, wearing, doing things that you can play with that don't involve taking it into your body. And so reducing that ability to contract anything. Okay. Cool. Now, I think a lot of people like the idea of pee in the bedroom beyond watching and wearing the idea that I've lost control. I think a lot of partners are turned on by. Oh, my gosh, I'm going to pee. I'm going to pee. And it's the idea that I am so enthralled in this experience that I just can't help it. I'm going to piss myself. Do you hear a lot of that? Yes. Absolutely. Like the losing control and doing something naughty. So letting go of this control that we've been taught ever since we were potty trained to not pee the bed, to not pee in front of other people. That can be really arousing for someone who wants to play with pee. What I want to know is in my neighborhood. I see people peeing all the time downtown Toronto. Where do these guys get lost on the being taught not to pee in front of people? I don't know. Their parents missed that part, right? They did. They're like, hey, this is my Bush. You're the kind of jungle there is one Bush in the neighborhood. It's a cement jungle. I know. And it's important to realize those people are not our P play friends. You don't run around being turned on by toilets everywhere. Exactly. The bottom line is consent. What if you think you want to do this, but you feel shy, you feel a little bit weird. What is the first step over the P play fence? And I can speak to my own experience. The first step for me was really exploring why I was into this. So the thing that we're doing, whatever the kink is banking or peeing, or even if it's something considered more normal, like kissing, whatever the flavor or the theme behind that thing is to make us feel flavor. I know there's going to be lots of puns that becomes the thing that really turns us on. That brings us the pleasure. And so with people, I had to figure out, what am I turned on by this because it's something around submission or domination or because I like the sensation. And then once I figured that out, then I could speak to my partners about it and talk about fantasies and give them something to respond to with my pleasure, because a lot of partners are into giving pleasure and then riding the waves of your pleasure. So I'm giving my partners information on how to connect with me through this particular kink, even if they're not really into it or if they don't understand it. Okay. So it's really about the feeling and the connection, and not necessarily the urine itself. Urine is just kind of the conduit through which you feel the heat, submission or the taboo. Is that what you're saying? Absolutely. And exactly what you said about co creating pleasure with your partner and being able to support each other's pleasure through empathy and trying to figure out, well, is this something that is a hard limit, a no go makes me feel unsafe, or is it something that is? Well, I don't really get it. And I don't understand why it's sexy. And it's kind of gross. Is that something that you can over work through or navigate through by making it sexy? So when my partner first wanted me to drink his urine, I had to figure out. Okay. Well, I'm not into this. And so I actually masturbated thinking about it. And so you're bringing arousal to something that you weren't necessarily aroused by into a place where you feel comfortable and safe to explore. That. Right. So you created that Association by associating that thought with your orgasm or pleasure. Exactly. All right. I don't know about this. Okay. I'm thinking that some people are ready to go, and some people are thinking no way I actually find pee gross. And it is okay to find things to be a turn off. Correct. Absolutely. And I think approaching it with I'm not really into that. Or I don't get that rather than the reaction of its growth can really support empathy for all of us getting the kind of pleasure that we want to have without shame. Okay. I love that. Yes, we do need to remove the shame element, even if you feel a little squeamish around this.

So what if your partner is into this? You honestly don't like pee. How do we find a compromise? Because we want to be really clear that you don't have to do anything you don't want to do. But you also want to make some effort to meet your partner's needs. There must be some middle ground. Absolutely. I call it the P continuum. There's a whole bunch of range of things that you can do. So I sometimes suggest to couples that they remove some of their barrier to pee and intimacy by integrating intimacy into their washroom habits. So, for example, maybe holding his penis while he's peeing and touching each other, or while you're sitting on the toilet may be kissing or touching, and that can reduce some of the pee shyness, too. So you may want to do it, but you can't pee because we don't pee in front of other people. And then there's things like peeing on each other in the shower or peeing on each other over in a bathtub where there isn't necessarily a pressure to clean up right away. There isn't. We're not peeing in the bed. We're not making a huge mess. And then also even dirty talking about it dirty talking about how it would feel like to experience what's coming from inside your body. Maybe it's an erotic ritual. Maybe it's receiving goddess nectar or something like that. I know I have goddess nectar up in here. You do? You probably have a lot. It's the morning. All right. Now, what about baby steps? Like, for instance, using Saran wrap or peeing over latex clothing? Because if you've ever worn latex clothing or been in one of those latex Chambers, you know, that one of the coolest sensations. Well, I guess hottest sensations is the sensation of temperature play right. Roll. Pouring hot water, cool water over those barriers can feel really hot. That is such a great idea that's so creative and working it into something that we already see is really sexy. Latex looks hot. Yeah, that's definitely one way to do it. Another one is peeing into a glass and maybe showing your partner or letting them smell it or stick their finger in it, reducing some of those barriers around the taste, the touch and the feel of it. You know, I really love that. Because if let's say my partner is really into golden shower, then I'm really not into it. But peeing into a cup is no big deal. I've had to do it many a time for all of my many drug tests. That would be fine, too, for all of my medical tests and letting him have that cup of water, that cup of water, that cup of tea and do what he made with it. Really? I think all I have to let go of is the shame and the judgment, right? Yeah. I don't really have to do anything. I don't even have to be a part of the experience if it's just a visual or tactile experience for him. And I also want to remind people that many, at times during sex play, you all have probably peed and not even noticed. Absolutely. Right. We hear women saying when they feel pressure on their G spot because that G area is sandwiched between the bladder and the interior vaginal wall. It feels like they're going to pee. And we have research showing. And I should probably do a podcast on this that it is, in fact, not pee. But we also have a small scale study with people who women who ejaculate more voluminously. They do find that it's coming from the bladder, so there could be traces of urine in it. And it's just not the end of the world. Absolutely. It's just fluids. It's more of our mind around it. It's pretty safe and low risk. And if it's something that can bring your partner excitement and pleasure, I really get off on watching someone have that kind of pleasure, even within something like massage. If the massage is being given, then the person giving it gets to experience a different kind of pleasure than the person receiving it. So I kind of think about that with fetishes or Kings that I'm not necessarily into for my own sexuality, but I'm into my partner's pleasure. Right. Okay. Now I do want to talk a little bit about degradation and humiliation, because for some people who are into peopleay, these kinky elements are a part of it. Not for everyone. For some people. It's a simple like, oh, my gosh, I'm going to be. I'm going to be. And then you be a tiny bit. Nobody even knows. But it's just the saying of and the excitement and the anticipation. But for some people, it is perhaps associated with degradation, humiliation. So I think we should briefly touch on how it is okay to enjoy the feelings of humiliation and degradation within the context of a safe, loving sexual relationship. It doesn't mean that you actually want to humiliate them. It is a consensual experience. Can you speak to that a little bit?

Yeah. Absolutely. And I think you put it really beautifully that it is something that is sensual and can create eroticism even within a humiliation and degradation type of play. And I think of humiliation and degradation as role play within an agreed set of boundaries. So we're taking all these feelings and emotions that are uncomfortable outside of this sexy context and putting some safeguards around it so that we can feel free to experience these kinds of things that are difficult outside. So I mean, walking around on the street. I don't want to be humiliated or degrade someone. But in a context where someone wants to experience that kind of freedom or go into that type of head space. Then it's super hot so people can experience the humiliation part of it through things like being peed in or peed on, but also through not being allowed to pee. So that pee denial. And I'm wiggling in my seat just thinking about it, but not being allowed to go. So someone else controlling your bodily function can be really humiliating and also ingesting someone's waist. So we're taking something that's straight from the tap and air quotes out of someone else's body looked like that. That could be a thing. Somewhere in the world, there are penis cats, actually, even the fountains. Sometimes they have those old kind of Victorian fountains with the little boys, and it's coming out of what they remove the penis because, God forbid, we see a penis. You see a penis? Yeah, that's true. Yeah. We need some bulgar statues. Yeah. Exactly. Well, and again, I want to emphasize that degradation and humiliation play, which is a whole other topic in and of itself, can be perfectly healthy in a SafeSting, consensual relationship. Having said that, not all people play is about degradation or humiliation or submission. Sometimes it can just be about the pure sensation. So sometimes there's a really, I think, heavy emotional attachment to P play, and sometimes it's just the physical sensation. Absolutely. It can be about role playing and getting creative through all of those different angles. I think of it sort of as a kaleidoscope. You know, it's the same things that we're into and the same people that we are, but we've just shifted the way that our perspective looks to find a bit more sexiness in life. All right. And if there's some listeners who are still thinking, oh, my gosh. This is just too weird. What are your closing words to them? My closing words are really around empathy. I think being able to figure out what makes us really uncomfortable about it and unpack that it is about shifting our mind into a more erotic space. And the same thing goes for any other kind of sexual play that we may be curious about, but not completely a hard limit against it and finding out how we can unpack all the things that we've been taught about pleasure, that it's just about the thing. And it's about orgasm and genital play that we can have so much more expansive pleasure play if we open up ourselves to roticizing some of these things that we're curious about. Okay, wonderful. Thank you so much. This is Luna Matata is with me today. Can you tell everybody where they can find you? Because I'm following you and you're teaching a whole bunch of workshops far beyond P play. I don't think this is necessarily your sole specialty, so tell us where we can find you and follow you and double tap your photos.

Absolutely. So on Instagram, Facebook and Twitter. I'm Luna Matata's. Or you can go to Luna Matata's dot com on Set Life I'm something shiny, which is our Facebook for Kingster, basically. And I'll actually be teaching this Friday at Oasis, and I'm doing a kind of linguist workshop so you can be eating like a champ. And I'm teaching a nonsexual submission and domination class. That good for her at the end of the month and a butt play class at the Nookie next week. Wow. Okay. So you're really covering the entire body? Yes. I want all the things. If there's another way for me to be turned on, I want it wonderful. Well, thank you so much. I think this has been very enlightening and informative for my lips and we'll talk to you again soon. Thank you so much, Doctor Jess. Thank you. So, folks, this has been a really interesting topic for me. I certainly learned a lot. I love listening to Luna talk, and I'm going to leave you with some closing thoughts, kind of summing up some of Luna's advice and adding my own. The first and foremost when it comes to P play is that remember, if you want to play with P, you start with things that are lower risk, I think, emotionally and in terms of vulnerability. So it's not as though your partner says I'm into pplay and you have to stand over them and pee on their face. You can do something that feels safer. Do what you're already doing. If it's intercourse, if it's oral, you can be lying down and just pee a tiny little bit and say, oh, I peed. You don't have to let them look at it or smell it or taste it to begin with. So that's number one, you're going to add this in baby steps. And please do not believe that the way people play is portrayed in porn is what you have to do, because in porn they like to take everything and Jack it up a level and make it more visual. But maybe this is something you don't even let your partner watch. Maybe it's just something you feel. Secondly, I love the advice around dirty talk. It may be that you don't actually ever want to experiment with pplay. You just play with the talk because I always feel that the dirty talk can be like 80% of any experience. So you can talk about a threesome or talk about P play or talk about whips and chain. And the talk can bring you at least 80% of the pleasure as the real thing. And in some cases, it's actually harder to talk because everything goes perfectly in talking in real life. Sometimes things go awry. Next, pick your location. I think the shower is probably a really great place to start, or maybe you're just kissing in the shower and you let it run down your leg if that's what you're into or your partner's into. I also think a very important piece of takeaway advice here is with any fantasy. So if you're totally not into people you can still learn something from this with any fantasy. If you want to bring it to life, you've got to find the underlying theme, the thematic emotions or the thematic feeling. What is it that turns you on? Is it just the heat of the P? Is it the feeling of submission? Is it the feeling of being naughty? Make it about the feeling and not the act or the fetish or the behavior itself. And I think it's easier to talk to your partner and your partner will be more receptive. So find the theme, the attached feeling. And I was thinking that maybe as a baby step, you just play with warm water in the bedroom, right? And you can just use warm water and pretend that it's pee. Not everything has to be real life if you're not into it. And if you're into it, you guys are already ahead of us. So don't even worry. And I just want to remind everyone that discomfort plus safety and security. So doing something you're uncomfortable with in the confines of a relationship in which you feel safe is the recipe for an ultimate sexual experience for the hottest sexual experience ever. So if something makes you uncomfortable, oh, dear, you are on the right track, if you're like. Yeah, that's easy to do that any time that's cool, it might feel good. But in terms of igniting those passion chemicals and awakening the parts of your brain that really light up and get most excited during sex, it is the subjects, the behaviors, and the elements that make you most uncomfortable that are your secret sauce. All right, so lean into the discomfort. Don't run from it. And I really liked how Luna was taking us on this journey toward empathy, because this takes us back full circle to sexual compatibility and being open to your partner's experience. Open to your partner's desires, not doing everything they want. But just being open and showing support is a core element of cultivating sexual compatibility. So even if people is not on your radar, I think there's a lot of important takeaways here. I have to run. I will talk to you all next week. Please leave us. Comments Questions find me on Instagram, Facebook and Twitter. Sex with Dr. Jess until next time.