Body Language in Dating & Mating

Happier Couples

Body Language in Dating & Mating

39:53

 

How should you adjust your body language during an argument with your partner? What strategies can we use to become active listeners? What role does body language play with single daters? Tune in now to learn from Body Language Expert, Karen Donaldson as she shares her advice and insights with Jess and Brandon.

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Rough Transcript:

This is a computer-generated rough transcript, so please excuse any typos. This podcast is an informational conversation and is not a substitute for medical, health or other professional advice, diagnosis or treatment. Always seek the services of an appropriate professional should you have individual questions or concerns.

Body Language in Dating & Mating

00:00:00 - 00:05:09

On. You're listening to the sacs with Dr Jess podcast sacks. And relationship advice. You can use tonight. Hey, hey, this is just a rally your friendly neighborhood sexologist here with the love of my life. Mr. Brendan wear the love of your life. We're gonna be talking about body language and the way body language shows up in dating Brennan is currently doing martial art moves its body language. The way body language shows up in in dating and in relationships in times of heroism and in times of conflict, and I was thinking about my own body language, and I appear very fam-. I I wear heels I wear dresses. I have long hair I wear been a makeup. And if you look at my Instagram photo feed, you describe me as feminine, but interestingly, I was looking through some of the photos from. My recent speaking engagements, so onstage speaking to crowds. And I noticed something totally different. So these more candid shots that are not curated like my Instagram feed. I stand with my legs wide apart. My hips are really opened my shoulders are back and wide and broad and. I look dominant and is interesting because people comment on on my confidence on my supposed- masculine energy. So on one hand, I know I convey femininity in the way, I dress in the way, I pose for photos, but when I'm in real life like I think I really feel like myself on stage. I'm somebody entirely different or I'm conveying something different. Now, I'm not a gender, essentially. I I totally realized that nurture plays a role in the way I adjust my body language. So when I'm on stage, I want to feel powerful. And I wonder if there's a part of me that wants to be perceived as masculine to de sexualize myself because I'm talking about this topic that is so sensitive, and sometimes it's just relationships, but still people know him a sexologist I fear being harassed because even when ninety nine percent of the audience is totally cool. It only takes one guy to sexualize me to really kinda squash me like a little bug. And so I wonder if I changed the way I speak the way I stand the way I move my body and assume these power poses to detract from the possibility of being sexualize. Sd? I'd just like you said power poses makes me think of Amy senti going book nine nine course on power pose it, and so I was thinking about you and body language, and I was thinking that sometimes when we fight. My body language is not good when we fight. I crossed my arms my close up. I know that I do because I paid attention to it. And I've made the effort to try to seem more open in arguments. But it's my default is to kind of close up to not allow you in into allow you access, but I do notice that when I'm walking I made a conscious attempt to have better posture because you just have the best posture were sitting at a table. And I'm guessing it's this Zouqi method piano lessons where I don't know. Do they hit you? If you don't sit upright is that what it is. You know? So I started Suzuki method piano when I was a little little girl and posture was a big part of it. So your legs, basically bent at a ninety degree angle, and they put a footstool beneath you so that you could sit perfectly erect. So my posture is all about erections. And I took piano lessons. Posture was not something that we focused on. And how about erections I'm all about erection. You are all about seven of them. Like, you're a teenage boy with your reckons. Really? Yes. The arby's. No reason voters that's the scientific term RV term, and like to talk about your friend, Mike who used to get the NRP's and mass high school you can wear silk, boxers. That's all this. You can't. Luckily, boys it gets easier. Yup. So posture though, for me, I feel confident I feel most confident when I'm walking down the street, and I do take a moment to think about my posture and kind of push my shoulders back to stand up straight and to smile, and when I do that. And I'm walking on the street. I might mentally I get into a different head space, and I feel better but myself, I feel more confident. So I can imagine how body language in dating and relationships conveys much the same when you walk in the door, and you act that way or you you exude.

00:05:09 - 00:10:01

That confidence in that happiness, and we say confidences sexy, and I see the allure of it. And I certainly find happiness attractive, but at the same time, I wondered do we wanna seem overly confident do we also want to show vulnerability? So we need some help with this absolutely need some help. We we needed on return, and our bees of body posture, and our bees, I wonder if people missed it, no reason Boehner's, no, we're talking body language. We need an expert to help us out. So joining us today to help us decipher our own body, language and communicate more effectively with our bodies for better. Or for worse is Karen Donaldson communication and body language expert and certified confidence coach, I need one of you. Karen, thank you for being here. A thanks so much for having me, Jeff. Now, I want to begin with conflict in relations. Ships and I see conflict as a very positive interaction in many cases, especially I think for a lot of the couples listening. They use conflict to improve their relationship to better understand one another's needs to adjust their behavior moving forward having said that even with these positive intentions, what mistakes do think many of us are making when we engage in in disagreement or conflict or arguments with our partners. A really good question. Now when we're in the midst of conflict or one of stealing uncomfortable. One of the biggest mistake both sexes. Make is that they don't maintain. I contact. You see here's the thing when there's conflict we are uncomfortable, and we have to become vulnerable and the way that we Showrunner ability is completely threw is the quickest things do Jackson Brandon is to look away. And then you're not being open to your partner. So we have to maintain I contact because we can see so much, and that's how retreat neck with each other and see each other's emotion. So normal looking away must maintain I contact and keep it there in hold it throw conversation. This is interesting because oftentimes when we're arguing all say to Bryn like look at me. But I think that the way I request that I contact is maybe too aggressive. The look at me when you're talking instead of saying, you know, look me in the eye. So that they feel like you're paying attention to me. But that's also mean knowing that not making my contact is the sign I don't wanna say as a sign of disrespect is what it is. Right. If Biden you with that common, courtesy of making eye contact it sends a clear message, doesn't it? No, you're absolutely right consent one of two methods. It can send a can be intentional. And it's totally. I'm not gonna look the I I don't wanna hear say so could come from that place. But it could competent place of being you know, what what you're saying. Absolutely. Right. And it's hard for me to say, yes, or it's hard for me to Greece. So comes from one of soup places. So actually have to think of when you're in a relationship, you've take you made a promise to be open with each other. So is it a conversation around are we building or we building part and just in reference to what she said, Jess, you know, it comes down to requesting. We don't want request. We wanna come from a place of how it makes you feel when they do look you in the eye, and how it makes you feel when they don't in the eye, and when we express it like that, and we don't ask or demand or request people open to receiving that. So it's something to think about. Because of the heat of the argument, MAC lasting one. I do know be connected and be polite, but you want to replace taking control and taking ownership how you feel and how they're doing is making you feel that how ship guy that dynamic in consultation argument mode, yet appreciate that. So I think in any conversation if you say when you do this it helps to put me at ease. Or when you look me in the eye. I feel as though I'm more comfortable expressing myself, if you can get to the underlying feeling in any conversation, any intense converstation, the person you're talking to is going to be more responsive, but I do think it's important too. Because you you said to control, and what I think people might take out of that comment is the idea of taking control of the conversation. Whereas I'm assuming you're alluding to the fact that you wanna take control of how you're interacting your behavior. Your your body language in your communication with your partner. Not. Control of the situation.

00:10:02 - 00:15:06

No, absolutely. That's a great distinction. Brandon. You're taking the only thing we have control over is our cells and in relationship, it's hard to think that because you want what you want the way you wanted. But know that you have no control over anyone else. So when I say control, just as you said, it's about new that's all you have. So if you can control that and control just sharing how you feel truly and authentically that's when things ship. So it's not control the situation. The situation is don't entity only have control over self. I think that there's this idea that when you control the situation that you are the person in power in that you are the person who manifest your own destiny when I mean, I want to do this all the time I want to control the outcome and letting go of that control, and realizing that I can only control my own behavior in my own my communication it. It sucks. Let's be on honest. Control everything, but you realize, but it doesn't suck because it allows you to be vulnerable. And when you open yourself up to that volubility is when you connect with your partner, and some people really take a fence to the fact that I say that happy couples fight and happy couples argue, but I think it's the way I see arguments as something to help you improve the relationship. Whereas if you see arguments as an opportunity to win to have a winner in a loser. Those arguments aren't going to be particularly constructive. No. You're absolutely right. Here's the thing. Their classes come appoint where we agree to disagree. I was recently having a work with couples all the time. And I were a lot of men is low and controls the big issue, and let's be real, you know, men like to take control of situations in the battle comes in where the female, and this is I'm just basically saying this as is woman wanna take back control. And so, you know, you don't have control over and as you shared what would become open. We let go of the the need to be right. Thank sip arguments. Are a great thing. Because that's what we learn about each other. That's how we learn works. What doesn't work what we need to do next time? If the both of you are open to receiving what each other says, not the big thing, we listen we here. But we don't listen a lot of time. We're hearing what are Cartner saying we already have our next striking words, ready even receive what they said, that's where part of the issue lays, are you? Actively. Listening to what's being said. Or are you ready to strike back because you're in a motive defense right into how do we really hear what our partners are saying to us? How do we become activists centers? And how can we show with our body language or facial expressions that we really are listening? You mentioned I contact what other specific strategies can people employ not only to help ourselves. But to convey that commitment to really hearing to our partners. Here's the first thing it has to be a choice that individual has to make the choice that I wanna be a part of this relationship and being a part of the relationship means being present during the arguments, just as I'm present during the happy times but open here's what I mean by open and how body language plays into this. When you're having conversation if you wonder having a disagreement once number one it needs to be Ida. I forget about texting forget about doing over the phone. We need to feel. People's emotions number two, you need to be facing one another. So if you think that you can sit on the couch and you can sit in shadow revere. That's not one to work your complete bodies should be fully facing each other. What I mean by that is want your shoulder square to square, and you might say can of Pacific. Yes, it is. And that's what's needed because then we can read what's happening with people. The other thing you want to read is you wanna look at each other's shoulders when people are getting tents uncomfortable or holding something back you'll see the other person's shoulders raising toward their air. And remember what I said, it's it's a choice to have an open conversation, and that point often tell people Wednesday, your partner shoulders raising. You wanna pause and ask them is there something that you'd like to share something that you'd like to say because they're actually back the sign that someone's holding something back, and they may not ever say. So if you're going to be that open, you're going to be a part of. Sation being active listener, an active participant building relationships. You wanna take that cue and stop you're renting may be that moment or stop sharing and given opportunity because you see that's clear body language that they're holding something back and other than that moment. They may not get an opportunity to say it. So I contacted square shoulder and watch Cuba shoulders going up allow that portion of the opportunity to share points.

00:15:07 - 00:20:01

I appreciate that reference to noticing their cues because I don't think I would have thought of looking for their physical cues. And I think that's an opportunity also to reach out and even just put your hand on their leg or offer to release attention their shoulders because I think there are some listeners who will take this information and really wanna comfort their partner when when they see this physical queue of the shoulders rising. And then there are some people who will. Us that cue against their partner and say will now I can see you're getting tents. And I think this is the really good reminder that if you see your partner becoming tents if you know, they're holding back in your role as a partner to reach out and facilitate the release of that tension not to accuse them of the tension. Not to chastise them for it. But one of the most important times to be physically affectionate is during times of tension when appropriate every every couple's a little bit different wanna I'm in here because we're talking about the heat of an argument facing one another ping attention to cues personally, when we get into an argument, I get flooded. Like, I have I am so consumed with whatever the argument is whatever it is. And oftentimes trying to prove my point that for me, I can tell you right now that I love all these ideas, but even just trying to implement a few of them has taken me years of learning to argh. View argue correctly because I still don't do it. Right. All the time because there's so much happening in that moment, and I still do as reptilian part of my brain. I think still goes back to I wanted to fend my position I wanna prove that I'm not wrong. I wanna eat my mate or not far. I'm not. Does that? But you know, I I'm I'm flooded. And I've got so much on my mind that it's hard for me to think about okay, am I facing my partner? Am I looking for bonded cues, actively listening? So what do you propose as the the most important thing to do when you're in an argument from body language, communication perspective to focus on one thing. What would you suggest out start with number one? You have to make the choice. This is something that you want for your relationship to be open during times of arguments because he can't even shoot it. I don't even wanna talk about what we can do about it. So you need to ask yourself as an individual one of my choosing. Right. So when you make a conscious choices that you know, what I'm gonna try out then we can go into that one thing. And that one thing I would say that you would need to do is completely make eye contact. It is the most difficult thing to do when you're heated. But show that says so much to the other person. So you're choosing to Canada stem ground I wanna win, but is winning bigger than building relationship? So it's choice and at number one thing would be contact. That's why always say do not argue over the phone over X over Email over whatever it be I contact Brandon. That's the one number one thing because here's the thing. Brandon and jets when you see your partner hurting, if you truly loved her partner, you will step back you will pause because if you're in your relationship for the right reason, you don't you do not want to be the one to make your partner hurt, and you feel hurt through another person's eyes. That's why content. I completely agree that I don't want when I see just hurting. I don't want her to hurt and it completely changes. My approach debts. To argument to the debate. Yeah. And and we know that the looking into one another's eyes and gazing releases oxytocin, so not only are you reading their emotions, but you're connecting chemically. So I I really appreciate that. And I think I could do more of that in argument to let to let my guard down. Now, if we were to shift from couples to single daders body language must play such an important role in dating, and I'm wondering, how do we first of all how do we balance conveying our own confidence, but also showing openness and vulnerability on a first second or fifth date while here's the biggest thing if you're on the first date your summer Sesing, if you like the person, so you definitely want to stay open. You want to stay pheasant for women. Here's what I. I'd say. If you are racked to to that gentleman. Once again, having your body face them.

00:20:01 - 00:25:01

Another quick thing is to tell someone at your into them. Is you want to make physical contact may be even standing side to side putting your hand on their hand on the shoulder? There is just something that happens when we there's that human touch that passes from one person to another. So that's one way to let someone know that you like them just simply touching them. It doesn't have to be the hand. Like, I said if you're sitting beside each other it could be by me five by five for gentlemen for around staying open. Once again, we do not want to cross our hand over our body in any way, shape or form that someone somewhat showed that you're close. So you want to be casual your smile, and you kinda wanna show up as outfit out mail. You know, women want to just from the caveman days woman look for someone who. Can whether we want to admit it or not someone who can protect us. And there's a physicality component about that. So we are looking for the gentlemen, who sold us are not slumped over whose back is wrecked and not to say their chests protruding out there standing upright, they're they're headed sold level. So they're looking proud because we want someone who likes feels proud of themselves because that's what women are attracted to. I see that as tractive for all genders, the not just pride, but the confidence in the research intended to confirm that people of all genders of all sexual orientations are attracted to people who are confident now. Yes in dating scene. Are there cues that we misread so their subconscious body cheese, and they are body cues that everyone notices of some of the subconscious body cues are coming. To contact when people look away that means they're into right when someone glances neglects away, they glanced back back from a lot of people know. But if you don't know that's what you're looking out for someone's taking a second. Look you wanna proceed because that's a left talks more q another subconscious cue that a lot of people miss is when we are walking towards someone if it's a screed kind of step in his morsel for the man most times, it is what it is. The man the man is coming to have a conversation with the woman, and what men don't realize what you take screed short step. It makes you look like you're not confident when you take confident intentional stripe to walk over to the woman. She's open to receive you. So you may not know it on a subconscious level. We don't want the man who looks a little bit shelter a little bit leak one. Who will like he's in a rush? Not intentional with who. He is. But the one who comes over proudly confidently your strides matter so intentional long strides, secure stride, gentlemen. This is where you your stride as you walk over to to that female makes a difference women. We see it. But we don't notice it because it's a conscious, but it actually happens. I'm gonna take it up a notch Nick saga to a business meeting business meeting. I'm gonna do lunges on the. Lange you ever and win that deal, babe. Oh my goodness. You know, what I always say Jessen Brandon just think about if you ever worked for an organization been in a meeting with a senior leader. And let's just use example. The senior leader is CEO's is a man heavy was the last time you saw that CEO seafood executive Russian screen themselves into a room. Never right. So it comes with an air of leadership as well. They're always walking with intention. So that's what I bring back to when you think of the person scurrying. Okay. The person who's working underneath that CO rec- level suite executive that goes for both sexes. But we're talking about dating not subconscious Q. So it's interesting to me that we wanna convey confidence. But we also want to be likable. We knew the research shows that we need to also show vulnerabilities. So I like the balance of the confidence with the body the openness with the eyes. And of course. Body language. There's some science to it in their some art. And there's you know, part of it is Evelyn Canarian. I'm sure part of it is cultural part of why I might scurry into a room has to do with messages around gender that have been ingrained in me from a young age. And I I know I certainly walk with confidence. I noticed when I knocked walked next to Brandon even though he so much taller than me. I have this long gays, and I always notice them like I always try and walk at your gate short legs on all. I love it. Right. He's ten inches taller than me. But it's all in his neck do the whole way.

00:25:01 - 00:30:01

So I look really confident I right before we let you go. I have been reading some body language cues from various, blogs, and magazines, and I want you to just if we can do a quick fire round. You can tell me if these are true or false. And if you have any additional commentary a yoga into that. I sure am. Okay. So first and foremost true or false real smile's show up above the mouth. Meaning if you really need it when you smile, you see it in their forehead their eyes squint a little bit is this true or false. It's very true. Real smiles involve your whole face. Not gesture mouth. I look like a goof when I smile for real. I love it. Because Brennan's is are never open. You can't you can't see I'm like, my whole faces contorted into like a three inch space, he happy because my exit sign my cousins photographer, and he's like Brennan, can you try and keep your eyes open. Okay. So this is true not true or false leaning in during a conversation means you're really interested in what that person is saying it's true inheriting about that. You have to remember. We talk about body language. I also talk about this in my speed confident app. But nonetheless, you have to take things based on the situation situation. So always bottling shoes are situational. But in general, if you're having a meeting, or it's a one on one conversation leaning in doesn't mean that you are interested. It can also mean intimidation. But if it's a casual conversation where no one's angered it does mean that you're interested in so should I be conscious of whether or not I lean it in or should I just allow my body to act as it feels like doing in the moment. There's two gauges to that. So once again jumping back to body language need. To be ready situationally. If you're having a casual conversation, just go to flow when you're having a casual conversation knowns, really assessing your body language. I'll usually work with my clients atom dating scene or in the professional seem. So some what I work with clients in the meeting we're very intentional about one released in on. We're trying to get an idea. Cross what we're trying to get someone to adopt idea were leaning into show that we are part of who they are. And we want to be a part of what we're doing. And that's how we win the accounts. Right. So it's either intention but rinse casual just just be yourself. And when you're leaning out, it means you stink. That's one sign. Okay. True or false the feet point where the heart wants to be no not where the heart wants to be the feet point to whether you are in our out of that conversation if that person's invest in the conversation, and they're interested in it. Their feet will point in the direction of person if that person is over the conversation, they potty knobs or even okay, I need to go. There feel pointing the direction that they would like to go I have to work on this one. So I often to be fair I talked to a lot of people, and I'm in a room, or I'm at a cocktail party or people are talking to me after an event, and I noticed that I'm trying to make sure I talked to everyone. And so I'm not always fully in a conversation. So one thing I've become more conscious of is bringing my feet back to ward the person so that I can be engaging with them because there's no point in being their fifty percent. Because it's not like I'm moving onto the next person. Anyway, it's not that. I don't wanna talk to these people. It's more that I wanna make sure I get a chance to talk to everyone who is either waiting to ask the question or who has shown support after speech. So this is an interesting one for me. And then finally if you're talking to someone and they touch their throat this suggests that they are really in gauged in the conversation. They are seeking deep communication and showing vulnerability does touching your throat show. Vulnerability owns kinda weird. Like, what am I doing? Because it could also weirding creepy Ray is Johnny gentle caress. Here's the thing that you throw tests. I wouldn't stay the sickly throw touching when we as whatever gender touch her face. I would include our neck, and that that means there's some nerves aware showing ability order something motion at though on inundating seen when someone touches her face. They're interested. There's a little bit of nerve. And that nerve I would always say relates to butterflies in the stomach so they're into that's what it means.

00:30:01 - 00:35:05

In dating seem a little bit of sexual tension. There you got it. Oh, I said it was the last one, but actually have one more. This is I remember I was asked to give this advice many years ago. I used to comment on a television show for 'cause moti called love trap. And love trap was a hidden camera show in which the host would secretly set up one person with another person on whom they. They had a crush. So they put these people in a room and be in a painting class, and somehow they separate them from the rest of the group, and it would be the job of the crusher to reveal their crush to the crush, she. And and the host would bust out and say, hi, you're on head and camera. I had to comment on the interactions, including body language, which was not my area of expertise. But I remember somebody asking me to say if they touch you above the elbow. It's a sign that they're just being friendly if they touch you below the elbow. It's a sign that they're into you know, it's the way below the waist. Brad traits knew it. So is this true or false while here's a bang. When you talk about above the elbow that is more professional. I like he was a friend. You know, when people talk about okay, do they want to continue to do or do? They wanna fend platform above the elbow is definitely I like, it was a friend below the elbow was definitely I like you beyond just a friend more on relations relational level or us for you. Definitely. So kind of closer it is to the fingertip. It comes to hand holding or primitive days what we do to connect cold hands. So as we go further down, the more the person likes you so but elbow painter friend below the elbow. There's something else. There's a little bit of a spark the more the risk the fingers. Okay. They're trying to see something seeds. So that is correct. Okay. So those procedures at love trap new they talking. May. Karen? Thank you so much for being with us. You have an app called speak confidence, which is available on the app store and Google play. So you can check that out. Folks, you have a best seller speak like you, breathe straight talk to say what you mean being heard and get noticed and you have a body language. Mini course, which I'm interested in body language, deconstructed how to read other people's body language and master your own and people can check this out at speak confidence dot com. We really appreciate your being here with us today. It was fun. Thanks to watch. It was an honor. And anytime, you're ready to code the body language. I'm here to assist. Okay. I'm going to have to send you the next time TV show asked me to to read body language. I'm sending them your way anytime. Thank you so much again. Thank you with each of these conversations. I like to think about how it's going to change the way, I think or behave moving forward and. Based on Karen's insights, I know I want to be more mindful of how I walk into a room. Now, I think I do it with confidence even though I don't do lunges laughing thinking everybody walking with a lunch just to exude confidence and work the but sheep's to in one two and one you get a bubble, but Andy looked confident, but I know I walk into a room with some confidence. But I'm sure that I also scurry sometimes because I either feel rushed or pressured or I wanna show people that I'm kind of at their service and what resonated with me about. Karen's insight is not only that my body language conveys important messages to other people, but also to myself when when I adjust my contact, I'm not only conveying to you babe that I'm opening and thank but I'm conveying and reminding. Myself that I want to be open when I walk into a room with a solid stride. I'm not just conveying confidence to other people. But I'm reminding myself that I'm worthy of that confidence. So moving forward, I'm going to be less concerned with how other people perceive, my body language and more focused on how my body positioning. And my body language makes me feel I want to be I guess less concerned unless self conscious and more focused on how I can make myself feel the most important is how do you wanna feel because I wanna be confident? But I also wanna be vulnerable to people because I think it shows who really am I feel confident.

00:35:05 - 00:39:48

But I also am not so confident that I it doesn't matter what you think are to exude this a type a hate that. But like this aid type personality where you know. I'm never. Wrong confidence till you know, next year will and I struggled with that as a woman because I guess I am a bit of a type, but I want to play that down because as a woman as an type, you aren't necessarily rewarded in the same ways. As a man like you like a handsome white tall, businessman business isn't perceived similarly to mixed race. Young. Asala gist privilege for days. I get that. I don't even need to. I know that people assume that I'm confident because of the way I look I probably haven't even had to open my mouth and people just assume that right, and I do feel it. And they assume that you're smart, and they assume that you're successful. It's interesting for me. Because people literally say to me you do that for a living. And they'll say do you make did you make a living that they kind of scoff at not only the work that I do. But what the most interesting thing to me is that people will come in challenge. My thority in do you really have a doctorate? What did you study? You know, what qualifies you as an expert? And they they'll do it right to my face. We were in Vancouver a couple of weeks ago, and people would come up and say, well, she's not she's not a doctor know, she doesn't have her PHD. It's because of the way I look, and it's because of the way I'm dressed and that they would do that to me. It's so intr-. Acting. You don't have a doctorate. But if you called yourself, Dr Brandon, I don't think people would come up to you and ask you the challenge you in the same way, Dr beware brain wear under beware. Best Dr name ever. I I'd be kinda skeptical. They'd still prefer it to Dr just though because it because I'm a young woman, and because of I think my build and the way I look and my dresses, and my heels, I thought curious sits really interesting points. I learned that icon tact at all times, very important in and I'm talking about the context of you. And I and this relationship when we're in an argument, I do find that I'll occasionally look off to the side and not make eye contact and is not because I'm trying to be sexy or anything like that. I'm clearly conveying a message, and I wanna be pathetic in argument, so maintain that constant contact. I'll be mindful of that the next time we're in an argument. So I I thought that was a really interesting point. I don't think it needs to be constant. I just think it needs to be consistent. You mean like weird constant were staring through you or steering you down. I thought that was really interesting. And then also the other thing that I learned in this conversation was touch above the waist. I think she said above the elbow. Just kidding. I will I promise not to touch below the waist ever. Yeah. I mean, you could Karen who say you can deconstruct so much about body language, but I get flooded in arguments and personal arguments. I'm not thinking about business discussions debates where I feel like I can maintain a level head because there isn't the same emotional attachment when someone disagrees with me at work. I'm willing to willing to listen, I am willing to hear their perspective. I often find that. When I listen actively in a business setting. Not always. But oftentimes, I feel it actually strengthens my position because I've come in with an informed decision beforehand. I mean, I'll certainly pick things out of the other person's commentary that will make change how I how I approach the situation. But anyway, but within the context of this relationship, I think being an active listener, very important. So we've got our changes moving forward. Hopefully, you've taken something out of this conversation to change the way, you think or the way you behave if you have questions we look forward to hearing from you so definitely hit us up sex with Dr dot com and happier couples dot com. Wherever you're at have a great week. I hope you're feeling confident looking confident walking into a room like you deserve to be there, and you deserve to take up space. And if you're like, Brandon Lund your way in Jews for the if you love your way in send us that video, please send it I would love to see that. Thanks so much have a great one. You're listening to the sex with Dr Jess podcast, improve your sex life, improve your life.